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From: Laurenz Albe To: Robert Haas , Nathan Bossart Cc: Melanie Plageman , =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Fr=E9d=E9ric?= Yhuel , PostgreSQL Hackers , David Rowley Date: Fri, 26 Apr 2024 04:24:45 +0200 In-Reply-To: References: <956435f8-3b2f-47a6-8756-8c54ded61802@dalibo.com> <20240424195747.GA861150@nathanxps13> Autocrypt: addr=laurenz.albe@cybertec.at; prefer-encrypt=mutual; keydata=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 bT5UrLvJ2jb99bA9QARzhFaxzyn0F/BUKzuIjRGNs/n6d5dNUFA0kOt8sX+TacmC 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 lDrT4wxdLJ/XCdbPPAyl+lZtOLsaHEEZvYNyTXwZc35dVf3R4/oz20HoG6s7ct8e1 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 36UMAx4ulWMyqJajLNGY0DdG8qIsR5nxRhrnK/mrCidZ8F9/D3bWAl4rjtHlsztN59 +AnW5l0HsQcY9ntFL/zEBOaonjdJf Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable User-Agent: Evolution 3.50.4 (3.50.4-1.fc39) MIME-Version: 1.0 List-Id: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Post: List-Owner: List-Archive: Archived-At: Precedence: bulk On Thu, 2024-04-25 at 14:33 -0400, Robert Haas wrote: > I believe that the underlying problem here can be summarized in this > way: just because I'm OK with 2MB of bloat in my 10MB table doesn't > mean that I'm OK with 2TB of bloat in my 10TB table. One reason for > this is simply that I can afford to waste 2MB much more easily than I > can afford to waste 2TB -- and that applies both on disk and in > memory. I don't find that convincing. Why are 2TB of wasted space in a 10TB table worse than 2TB of wasted space in 100 tables of 100GB each? > Another reason, at least in existing releases, is that at some > point index vacuuming hits a wall because we run out of space for dead > tuples. We *most definitely* want to do index vacuuming before we get > to the point where we're going to have to do multiple cycles of index > vacuuming. That is more convincing. But do we need a GUC for that? What about making a table eligible for autovacuum as soon as the number of dead tuples reaches 90% of what you can hold in "autovacuum_work_mem"? Yours, Laurenz Albe