Received: from malur.postgresql.org ([217.196.149.56]) by arkaria.postgresql.org with esmtps (TLS1.3:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1jO7ec-0000oF-Nh for pgsql-hackers@arkaria.postgresql.org; Mon, 13 Apr 2020 22:34:11 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=malur.postgresql.org) by malur.postgresql.org with esmtp (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1jO7ea-00011I-Pe for pgsql-hackers@arkaria.postgresql.org; Mon, 13 Apr 2020 22:34:08 +0000 Received: from magus.postgresql.org ([2a02:c0:301:0:ffff::29]) by malur.postgresql.org with esmtps (TLS1.3:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1jO7ea-000106-EZ for pgsql-hackers@lists.postgresql.org; Mon, 13 Apr 2020 22:34:08 +0000 Received: from meldrar.postgresql.org ([2a02:c0:301:0:ffff::31]) by magus.postgresql.org with esmtp (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1jO7eX-0001rS-E8 for pgsql-hackers@lists.postgresql.org; Mon, 13 Apr 2020 22:34:08 +0000 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=postgresql.org; s=20171124; h=Content-Type:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Date: Message-ID:From:References:To:Subject:Sender:Reply-To:Cc: Content-Transfer-Encoding:Content-ID:Content-Description; bh=Vw7zRVCX8wgsa/gZmEF2EgAbvuW4oOdpzYJvVQgwPv4=; b=T8Yq7vpSYeHWULyvztm9ZNNnqM T5tc0J5zpxiDctcjCGYaB0Wwkyemrksewv3XhLf1E537v7te6QLyvWiMGmfezZZbIFqk2oFTBZmCY x9lWIoqfD8KXgt6xY2yT0a6M8cv6lqcTl4XL1d22doNYx+4FfTSh3safO9pm8FAg/XgseG6p3rhJ0 Ih3ERm/kDLvdhBOUO1A6AfuZ5hl7qvUVmTrhDyxzy8gUq/XoM4z9GSnFGgaj5Oafz+fmaiWYhdwhQ 3eqUzmUwlY3+SvVoGkqpGB/+JeR8R6rM7eojCokFKfjZJTy5PG/V8LbJ2PWLlntF09HKCSpCuaYyp u2c1MJ2A==; Received: from pool-173-56-10-231.nycmny.fios.verizon.net ([173.56.10.231] helo=Ph33rHippo.local) by meldrar.postgresql.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.3:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1jO7eU-00056l-3A; Mon, 13 Apr 2020 22:34:05 +0000 Subject: Re: Poll: are people okay with function/operator table redesign? To: Tom Lane , pgsql-hackers@lists.postgresql.org References: <8691.1586798003@sss.pgh.pa.us> From: "Jonathan S. Katz" Autocrypt: addr=jkatz@postgresql.org; keydata= mQINBFtShwABEAC7PNHDUOTYuifpUCk23KqfxdQQkn4nkoxOXRK0+rAj36FiwqGB4TJFuOVZ sDFAEiSlC8Jt4y5Cs7B5tetT8JNd2cs6zp/udMJJDz9d65O9PDpdlMgAmIiTzpLlSdx8FG56 DTksaDv1d8j3cTJPSE4/fWSxqzA7o3Y9UuL7atZPrzfImgpRKs0of7elIHwOa8GucjyhYqcR h60wFBJc2KXqQdDYRTZy43DSnY/0VNc0omiH355fustvpm+m5HjD3w7qZyfN3fpKJpnX1LCF f3MnPHaDGITIYGRCBXvf0UqUtD6OEVWPv2C2gyqWMIpWmZTOgDufltKyIByKBoS9x0PlFkij 04X3KODCngt+N8Ssc9OICc6QSxhjoP48PYPdmiTmkrGuf0LX084wj1xeo1NX7XxZK39F6dTJ DhsIiW0sNS0xMxQHLHG9VLbPjx3SANQBh6BuryPz5ZupW9/TIDmkvprtU/oXfKgtfYm3fxmk EctxbWrEPsFTFPyuMqQu6l+xyQv0s1VLZfjNWaua6H1/gGoIt6kRnn5qMXDVVpijuWkHbv7G ngaQMd258UrrOEHnnjzhQ7jxMWV9D+emxbAtlIxnYvCWlV4IwAQhEHfvudqYaIY3hNWrvQ6H GB2KXoTZYN9g5djm14/5nj1IU5zOcovkjJnKhoo9iStnpFF2cwARAQABtCdKb25hdGhhbiBT LiBLYXR6IDxqa2F0ekBwb3N0Z3Jlc3FsLm9yZz6JAlQEEwEIAD4CGwMFCQeGH4AFCwkIBwIG FQoJCAsCBBYCAwECHgECF4AWIQT6hLaVryv3miBkP/HxBJxynxxlJwUCW1KJJQAKCRDxBJxy nxxlJwjrD/kBgqsW4QpNpTFw7ifRokZV08CCX4huPBJQ91rrv+UEWlEcotFBHVkYyHnpzARl tcZxhJ9CbFxjniH9cOTty5T/O1yolbOHtZSW8Z8aWV6BVEbjMb+BFxSSLm7RnvJdzQbGCZq2 ZZvfVpB6z3EHYph4KDdVKvMFjoLskxmdS1DE0tE3zTxvoQsi24Q+HOS07kUjs6fsu/WICMfz mgO++AWG9Y0CvN0mm4TkujESzyKM9E5irD+leEMIcddl51Aa2c/VMfBXQbRmpHIgUFTmuHQD CnQih+9i3OJAksDg66SP8a7yiXv5mwvyDi1EfTGVKYR2j+pwyjwnC3oIbvDMmB3uTn2JIjnT iZKPVtAcAylXjubFltihQgNyuShdP4W+kBwZizhUFqUVL8Anx+KoytYmJPfMRFLGuK4obXKq a2ZS3k9KB+H+isOx2nFJOsc7V360Zp1DVaNmuiK10TT6QndShSPaqkJqFtCb6r92rZ9sZM/L 3vtCI4Rrl3Pt1MgtENXupS8gZpJnAYS0j5A1PAZ09r6ANoaeMHspF+5J5fOHeEvqphXr36mm a83Vl1t4orPb0+QmmijmlpseDU63M88Aw5p3c4qj7t8Qr2EZ5zrn7/sFn5wOfbs8Nymxafif QCnlV2vg9p0m7vSk/yLJ4PFZvs52FgqAGRCdRn0s2EC99bkCDQRbUocAARAAv8ho/toQ9DG3 j4f9h9n1aRHr2FlviN2Utpy6L8+dfDggO0geilmkGQOolZ2E60gGfye/kUtF9W3NByO4hxDR 9u6qbOXcdqnuA+cc68EfqlWFJrVtYFxt0h4ElWYOYnIezKthriWch/FY70FGrxs3z8UHOHq5 0wBW433eTvZm90WixBiXEt2v1DgW4Vr3ymfO7Aap/IYyPuE4JzgudAuAl0HKPyNEHWHG1dAb jX1RiCw9gknIDWQOF0B4UAaJctWGVcnZ3A2ULwNGMa1P9ZJlBWf1vcj01aiHMU0yQ7JjJiSp vfm9eM0uSLwRdDrJjyl5ZZqVumjdv2SMNQ8GvYRbEMys3GGDSt9zXgfCSUnPnJfYxjzBHRI6 x44Wfsx8S6hWxepOogCJJ/g67Bk9mY8YV4klWIXDJVOL5jnBC09DbsZG81JaE2QxB8Y7W36Z Mroi9XMxg3s805hQAQUvdG/poU8hN8BWdrnTm/+4eQQp7gDY1ePDmGM6bJC+OHOSnFtR/f+7 0zpKJ10cc7cBygGnl1yR3KjhFyAWUFvP4ZGziKCcpMwXZfe9PGuyA/YOubMphxIn3YsK2wrd faKZYX2GMZCZhMMcvx9IpQrxIJgU+VlwXu/O+Lk10VIPcxPJJwmpdI6HzcS8ZgG6IMcC444X XTuLaP8j2mgcMvYak3ScCykAEQEAAYkCPAQYAQgAJhYhBPqEtpWvK/eaIGQ/8fEEnHKfHGUn BQJbUocAAhsMBQkHhh+AAAoJEPEEnHKfHGUnReMP/RA2UhGQj+G4uBshkRLjpRysabdPqgQB dEBk6wYbio88Wg/2/hgY7UzmDDEwX3sZfQDcrI6+vIobI8uqstZID+WgAAa1JLfChMyVQnSy 0zfWMOABXscc5tGuvFRZvJklTissMFjXUwaREEKp4ZikTvJ/62MCjSdtrUhnPLvoTsHTKRKD ichE+b5A54alwsubTijw12O6N22r5IjZiiSZV0u7dsShyKw+7wCSax9fuBoE43NMYf+dnjMK nerAQYUcZWYMnk+EC8RaqYAxv6XZ2tKx1AkGGktwkQIBwrz9IlDSvJ3LWJ2UIIuLRTdngNgg GIL4zzuUa2F56FqskQIuYMaNETk6LYfalBDQ6TVLAcgCPQxp4k4i/PRsZ3lZ2ZhRHRYciOvm kp+I6EfHwllQpYrWs1thluBGqlJSVJgKl0IOFvKLsQ6KKfqzAwh6FxrO5qajp4viNIgtWoFw O5Bp0jgFTbH2OrMWIRfUdUCH1Djbuo65svhNj7FNsQVYzHDI+Nd1I/LOBoPc3UorRMF2M4JV kUR7skOHWUbPTSNUr7qc14NSMY3PKjGeVGAsBVHBPvmRx/Ss2tW/TpJWpxg4pmquFQSXuaYh Yf4FN8Sxy320pcr+FqN8AhZkYJcNY82OTtR5VEKRC/mYcyq61qXIKqngydn79bJjGxHipxyF FmEC Message-ID: Date: Mon, 13 Apr 2020 18:33:58 -0400 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.15; rv:68.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/68.7.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <8691.1586798003@sss.pgh.pa.us> Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha256; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="nhCx4bCACSlovGN0nG40N4ol9d3njispV" List-Id: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Post: List-Owner: List-Archive: Precedence: bulk This is an OpenPGP/MIME signed message (RFC 4880 and 3156) --nhCx4bCACSlovGN0nG40N4ol9d3njispV Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="86ynRdbrYsRETJqaY3KtBmWKBueTnEnPH" --86ynRdbrYsRETJqaY3KtBmWKBueTnEnPH Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On 4/13/20 1:13 PM, Tom Lane wrote: > As discussed in the thread at [1], I've been working on redesigning > the tables we use to present SQL functions and operators. The > first installment of that is now up; see tables 9.30 and 9.31 at >=20 > https://www.postgresql.org/docs/devel/functions-datetime.html >=20 > and table 9.33 at >=20 > https://www.postgresql.org/docs/devel/functions-enum.html >=20 > Before I spend more time on this, I want to make sure that people > are happy with this line of attack. Comparing these tables to > the way they look in v12, they clearly take more vertical space; > but at least to my eye they're less cluttered and more readable. > They definitely scale a lot better for cases where a long function > description is needed, or where we'd like to have more than one > example. Does anyone prefer the old way, or have a better idea? >=20 > I know that the table headings are a bit weirdly laid out; hopefully > that can be resolved [2]. > [2] https://www.postgresql.org/message-id/6169.1586794603%40sss.pgh.pa.= us When evaluating [2], I will admit at first I was very confused about the layout and wasn't exactly sure what you were saying was incorrect in that note. After fixing [2] on my local copy, I started to look at it aga= in. For positives, I do think it's an improvement for readability on mobile. Flow/content aside, it was easier to read and follow what was going on and there was less side scrolling. I think one thing that was throwing me off was having the function signature before the description. I would recommend flipping them: have the function description first, followed by signature, followed be examples. I think that follows the natural flow more of what one is doing when they look up the function. I think that would also benefit larger tables too: instead of having to scroll up to understand how things are laid out, it'd follow said flow. There are probably some things we can do with shading on the pgweb side to make items more distinguishable, I don't think that would be too terrible to add. Thinking out loud, it'd also be great if we could add in some anchors as well, so perhaps in the future on the pgweb side we could add in some discoverable links that other documentation has -- which in turn people could click / link to others directly to the function name. Anyway, change is hard. I'm warming up to it. Jonathan --86ynRdbrYsRETJqaY3KtBmWKBueTnEnPH-- --nhCx4bCACSlovGN0nG40N4ol9d3njispV Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: OpenPGP digital signature Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQIzBAEBCAAdFiEE+oS2la8r95ogZD/x8QSccp8cZScFAl6U6NYACgkQ8QSccp8c ZSe9AhAAgrfiVpdD8aTKFjenF8LiE191sRnhfvQYlQ+Td2F1CoOMlP1SCPVc4c7S jHAxpn9/ZSUFSQuCmMS9HYqPva9GcYttBsqYzXl8vSaXQJIBojPUmEKWNWCfLvzJ MXL02VLKW9hPbmjaqz+iHeXBPQrGb5ne8E83F11mnLF57LS4vZqWvQLvKikbDBs7 hXaUDwH+8ElVK7RWoHVVCqu0izPIyugIr/4QkzymOQEWYrkdZXJhWTcpfvMPEtC6 OcQnDM2yVgEWLo7Yk/6rH0UhRIt/0KF5v128PDgVHz2Gjp9vudl30G2SRUlcDhJo NIOf82ln1uVv4GQ/dpULiycFMPGmqx5IqQgAc18kkkTGmSCJ7WPrW/+2zr+a1qDB nrqstRLNcC8O28kV0BdJr5qtZPYon1lLVaLt4ZPH7dJM9XmFEjqKxYJj4mgzxZ6o WdWpWJS3mhSp2L+P4PfRlBz2PH/0XqfQ1Wb8iKbAtjWEgh8hJzphjfMi9ez9bvuq LBDl8tLw1Wr41FWNIkhgj2yqF1Ww4pGHenGgf1jzjzQmJ5jV6yh/Cqtw3a73sWul Y6FdqzHu5aut8QbPBshrODGQnI4c6QvNPiwzBK9QmNvLFJVv67bT5sfNs/SGyass pfv4xh0dJn39Ubip3pdY++TiqxsCG4Bjk35/7IVIeabfGUlnViw= =2qoz -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --nhCx4bCACSlovGN0nG40N4ol9d3njispV--