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Wed, 13 Mar 2024 12:05:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([89.207.171.141]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id je2-20020a05600c1f8200b004133072017csm3176550wmb.42.2024.03.13.12.05.02 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256/256); Wed, 13 Mar 2024 12:05:03 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Subject: Re: Reports on obsolete Postgres versions From: Laurenz Albe To: Daniel Gustafsson , Michael Banck Cc: Bruce Momjian , Nathan Bossart , PostgreSQL Hackers Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2024 20:04:59 +0100 In-Reply-To: References: <20240311211204.GA1786481@nathanxps13> <65f02a88.170a0220.805a4.01ff@mx.google.com> Autocrypt: addr=laurenz.albe@cybertec.at; prefer-encrypt=mutual; keydata=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 bT5UrLvJ2jb99bA9QARzhFaxzyn0F/BUKzuIjRGNs/n6d5dNUFA0kOt8sX+TacmC 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 lDrT4wxdLJ/XCdbPPAyl+lZtOLsaHEEZvYNyTXwZc35dVf3R4/oz20HoG6s7ct8e1 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 36UMAx4ulWMyqJajLNGY0DdG8qIsR5nxRhrnK/mrCidZ8F9/D3bWAl4rjtHlsztN59 +AnW5l0HsQcY9ntFL/zEBOaonjdJf Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable User-Agent: Evolution 3.50.4 (3.50.4-1.fc39) MIME-Version: 1.0 List-Id: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Post: List-Owner: List-Archive: Archived-At: Precedence: bulk On Tue, 2024-03-12 at 11:56 +0100, Daniel Gustafsson wrote: > > I liked the statement from Laurenz a while ago on his blog > > (paraphrased): "Upgrading to the latest patch release does not require > > application testing or recertification". I am not sure we want to put > > that into the official page (or maybe tone down/qualify it a bit), but = I > > think a lot of users stay on older minor versions because they dread > > their internal testing policies. >=20 > I think we need a more conservative language since a minor release might = fix a > planner bug that someone's app relied on and their plans will be worse af= ter > upgrading.=C2=A0 While rare, it can for sure happen so the official wordi= ng should > probably avoid such bold claims. I think we are pretty conservative with backpatching changes to the optimizer that could destabilize existing plans. I feel quite strongly that we should not use overly conservative language there. If people feel that they have to test their applications for new minor releases, the only effect will be that they won't install minor relea= ses. Installing a minor release should be as routine as the operating system patches that many companies apply automatically during weekend maintenance windows. They can also introduce bugs, and everybody knows and accepts tha= t. Yours, Laurenz Albe