Message-ID: <fc4d8e83-0057-450a-917c-d8c2c79b336b@gmail.com>
Date: Fri, 3 Jul 2026 08:55:40 -0500
MIME-Version: 1.0
User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird
Subject: Re: Can we get rid of TerminateThread() in pg_dump?
To: Thomas Munro <thomas.munro@gmail.com>,
 pgsql-hackers <pgsql-hackers@postgresql.org>
Cc: Tom Lane <tgl@sss.pgh.pa.us>, Kyotaro Horiguchi <horikyota.ntt@gmail.com>
References: 
 <CA+hUKGJgO=o-vLFahGdR2WesuX3h1-0j=a8z72fChc-MG1Hveg@mail.gmail.com>
Content-Language: en-US
From: Bryan Green <dbryan.green@gmail.com>
In-Reply-To: 
 <CA+hUKGJgO=o-vLFahGdR2WesuX3h1-0j=a8z72fChc-MG1Hveg@mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Archived-At: 
 <https://www.postgresql.org/message-id/fc4d8e83-0057-450a-917c-d8c2c79b336b%40gmail.com>
Precedence: bulk

On 7/2/2026 10:32 PM, Thomas Munro wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> Following up on this ancient discussion and resulting commit e652273e...
> 
> https://www.postgresql.org/message-id/flat/11515.1464961470%40sss.pgh.pa.us#3e78a2af445dd7e566cf499023e8cb97
> 
> write(fd, ...) locks fd's entry in a user space descriptor table on
> Windows, so if the terminated thread was also writing to stderr, I am
> pretty sure it would hang.  Someone with Windows might be able to
> repro that by hacking the workers to write to stderr a lot?
> WriteFile(_get_osfhandle(STDERR_FILENO), ...) might avoid that
> specific issue, but for all I know that's just the tip of the iceberg
> considering the socket stuff.
> 
> Apparently this hasn't been a problem in practice.  Error reporting
> coinciding with ^C must be unlikely?  I'd still like to find a
> non-evil way to suppress log output, though.  What if we atomically
> pointed STDERR_FILENO to /dev/null, with dup2()?  I wrote a patch to
> try that idea out, but I don't have Windows, so I'm sharing this as a
> curiosity in case anyone wants to try it and/or comment on all this.
> Or has a better idea.  Preferably that would work on Windows and Unix
> (if it also used threads).
> 
> (How I arrived at this obscure hypothetical problem: I've been
> teaching pg_dump (and everything else) to use threads on Unix too, ie
> harmonising Windows and Unix code paths.  We certainly don't want
> thread termination/cancellation in pg_threads.h (modern APIs don't
> even have that, designers of older APIs regret it, including the
> Windows people who are quite emphatic about there being no safe way to
> use it[1]), so I wanted to find another way to silence error output.
> close() would kinda work but cause chaos if another open() squats the
> fd number, which leads to the idea of dup2(dummy, STDERR_FILENO).
> Then I wondered if that would also work on Windows' fake fd system, ie
> whether dup2(dummy, STDERR_FILENO) would play nicely with concurrent
> write(STDERR_FILENO) or fwrite(stderr) as the file is switched.  Yes,
> as far as I can tell, but as soon as I read about the user space fd
> locks that make that work, the above concrete problem with write() vs
> TerminateThread() became clear.)
> 
> [1] https://devblogs.microsoft.com/oldnewthing/20150814-00/?p=91811

I build pg_dump on Windows, so I tried this out (MSVC 19.51, VS 2026).

It works. It compiles clean, and on a ^C during a parallel dump it
suppresses the worker cancel messages the same way the TerminateThread
call did-- I checked against unmodified master with the TerminateThread
call still in place, and the output is identical-- "terminated by user"
and nothing else.

Moving write_stderr off fileno(stderr) to STDERR_FILENO is worth having
on its own: that shim's comment notes _fileno returns -1 when the stream
is closed, which is a state the shutdown path can be in.

Opening NUL in the handler worked here; I didn't need to open it in advance.

Since you mention moving parallel.c to threads on non-Windows, I've been
replacing the socketpair/select() worker protocol on Windows with an
in-process queue (a mutex and two condition variables)[1], heading the
same direction to unify across platforms. There a worker signals its own
death through the condition variable rather than the leader seeing pipe
EOF, so ^C hits an extra pg_fatal("a worker process died unexpectedly")
in the leader-- and your redirect swallows that one too. I put your
patch on top of that series and hit ^C on a 2.3 GB dump repeatedly at -j
2, 4, 8, and 100: clean exit every time, "terminated by user", nothing
else. pg_stat_activity right afterward showed no live COPYs, up through
-j 100-- so the PQcancel()s land and the backends actually stop, which
TerminateThread never did. So your change composes with that work.


[1]
https://www.postgresql.org/message-id/flat/8c712d76-ecf7-4749-a6d8-dddc01f298ec%40gmail.com

-- 
Bryan Green
EDB: https://www.enterprisedb.com