From jd@commandprompt.com Thu Nov 15 18:50:58 2007 Received: from localhost (unknown [200.46.204.182]) by postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 023E62E2D22 for ; Thu, 15 Nov 2007 14:50:58 -0400 (AST) Received: from postgresql.org ([200.46.204.71]) by localhost (mx1.hub.org [200.46.204.182]) (amavisd-maia, port 10024) with ESMTP id 00112-09 for ; Thu, 15 Nov 2007 14:50:30 -0400 (AST) Received: from lists.commandprompt.com (host-159.commandprompt.net [207.173.203.159]) by postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 13A542E2368 for ; Thu, 15 Nov 2007 14:50:48 -0400 (AST) Received: from scratch (or-69-34-217-90.sta.embarqhsd.net [69.34.217.90]) (authenticated bits=0) by lists.commandprompt.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id lAFIok7O019738 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Thu, 15 Nov 2007 10:50:47 -0800 Date: Thu, 15 Nov 2007 10:51:51 -0800 From: "Joshua D. Drake" To: pgsql-www@postgresql.org Subject: change to interfaces.html Message-ID: <20071115105151.79ff8061@scratch> Organization: Command Prompt, Inc. X-Mailer: Claws Mail 3.0.2 (GTK+ 2.12.0; x86_64-pc-linux-gnu) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="MP_/Mlzk9CTsHip_Q50Rq__btQN" X-Greylist: Sender succeeded SMTP AUTH, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.0 (lists.commandprompt.com [207.173.203.159]); Thu, 15 Nov 2007 10:50:47 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: Maia Mailguard 1.0.1 X-Archive-Number: 200711/248 X-Sequence-Number: 13026 --MP_/Mlzk9CTsHip_Q50Rq__btQN Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Disposition: inline LS0tLS1CRUdJTiBQR1AgU0lHTkVEIE1FU1NBR0UtLS0tLQ0KSGFzaDogU0hBMQ0KDQphZGQgb2Ri Y25nDQpmaXhlZCBvZGJjIHVybA0KZml4ZWQgdGNsIHVybA0KYWRkZWQgb3BlbiBvZmZpY2Ugc2Ri YyBkcml2ZXINCg0KDQotIC0tIA0KDQogICAgICA9PT0gVGhlIFBvc3RncmVTUUwgQ29tcGFueTog Q29tbWFuZCBQcm9tcHQsIEluYy4gPT09DQpTYWxlcy9TdXBwb3J0OiArMS41MDMuNjY3LjQ1NjQg ICAyNHg3L0VtZXJnZW5jeTogKzEuODAwLjQ5Mi4yMjQwDQpQb3N0Z3JlU1FMIHNvbHV0aW9ucyBz aW5jZSAxOTk3ICBodHRwOi8vd3d3LmNvbW1hbmRwcm9tcHQuY29tLw0KCQkJVU5JUVVFIE5PVCBO VUxMDQpEb25hdGUgdG8gdGhlIFBvc3RncmVTUUwgUHJvamVjdDogaHR0cDovL3d3dy5wb3N0Z3Jl c3FsLm9yZy9hYm91dC9kb25hdGUNClBvc3RncmVTUUwgUmVwbGljYXRpb246IGh0dHA6Ly93d3cu Y29tbWFuZHByb21wdC5jb20vcHJvZHVjdHMvDQoNCi0tLS0tQkVHSU4gUEdQIFNJR05BVFVSRS0t LS0tDQpWZXJzaW9uOiBHbnVQRyB2MS40LjYgKEdOVS9MaW51eCkNCg0KaUQ4REJRRkhQSlZIQVRi L3pxZlpVVVFSQW5PQkFKOXR5ZkR5L2JVUURwUGt6dTFmZDlPQ3FkNzBBZ0NmWmJqTw0KbUwwclVs Nkd6Z05kRXlsNnQwbFpkUHM9DQo9TG9Udw0KLS0tLS1FTkQgUEdQIFNJR05BVFVSRS0tLS0tDQo= --MP_/Mlzk9CTsHip_Q50Rq__btQN Content-Type: text/x-patch; name=interfaces.html.diff Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: attachment; filename=interfaces.html.diff 38a39,44 >=20 > > OpenOffice / SDBC > A native Open Office PostgreSQL driver, also works= with OO Base front end. > >=20 60c66 < TCL --- > TCL 69c75 < .NET --- > = .NET 71a78,81 > > ODBCng > GPL ODBC from Command Prompt, Inc. > 73,74c83,84 < Any (ODBC) <   --- > pgODBC > LGPL ODBC driver --MP_/Mlzk9CTsHip_Q50Rq__btQN-- From magnus@hagander.net Thu Nov 15 19:24:35 2007 Received: from localhost (unknown [200.46.204.187]) by postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 24FED2E1D81 for ; Thu, 15 Nov 2007 15:24:35 -0400 (AST) Received: from postgresql.org ([200.46.204.71]) by localhost (mx1.hub.org [200.46.204.187]) (amavisd-maia, port 10024) with ESMTP id 55756-10 for ; Thu, 15 Nov 2007 15:24:22 -0400 (AST) Received: from svr2.hagander.net (svr2.hagander.net [88.198.128.226]) by postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4EEEE2E2D8B for ; Thu, 15 Nov 2007 15:24:30 -0400 (AST) Received: from dynamic.hagander.net ([127.0.0.1]) (encrypted and authenticated) by svr2.hagander.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 31449DCCAC8; Thu, 15 Nov 2007 20:24:29 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <473C9D0A.1090409@hagander.net> Date: Thu, 15 Nov 2007 20:24:58 +0100 From: Magnus Hagander User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.9 (X11/20071031) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Joshua D. Drake" CC: pgsql-www@postgresql.org Subject: Re: change to interfaces.html References: <20071115105151.79ff8061@scratch> In-Reply-To: <20071115105151.79ff8061@scratch> X-Enigmail-Version: 0.95.5 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: Maia Mailguard 1.0.1 X-Archive-Number: 200711/251 X-Sequence-Number: 13029 Joshua D. Drake wrote: > add odbcng > fixed odbc url > fixed tcl url > added open office sdbc driver Checking before I change... 1) I'd like to put the odbcng driver below the one that's there now. 2) I'd like to remove the "from commandprompt inc" part. No other interfaces list where they're from. Are you fine with these changes? //Magnus From jd@commandprompt.com Thu Nov 15 19:26:41 2007 Received: from localhost (unknown [200.46.204.184]) by postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 534E22E2D56 for ; Thu, 15 Nov 2007 15:26:41 -0400 (AST) Received: from postgresql.org ([200.46.204.71]) by localhost (mx1.hub.org [200.46.204.184]) (amavisd-maia, port 10024) with ESMTP id 94112-10 for ; Thu, 15 Nov 2007 15:26:16 -0400 (AST) Received: from lists.commandprompt.com (host-159.commandprompt.net [207.173.203.159]) by postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 22D9E2E1D81 for ; Thu, 15 Nov 2007 15:26:35 -0400 (AST) Received: from scratch (or-69-34-217-90.sta.embarqhsd.net [69.34.217.90]) (authenticated bits=0) by lists.commandprompt.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id lAFJQVXA021490 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Thu, 15 Nov 2007 11:26:32 -0800 Date: Thu, 15 Nov 2007 11:27:38 -0800 From: "Joshua D. Drake" To: Magnus Hagander Cc: pgsql-www@postgresql.org Subject: Re: change to interfaces.html Message-ID: <20071115112738.60c3a837@scratch> In-Reply-To: <473C9D0A.1090409@hagander.net> References: <20071115105151.79ff8061@scratch> <473C9D0A.1090409@hagander.net> Organization: Command Prompt, Inc. X-Mailer: Claws Mail 3.0.2 (GTK+ 2.12.0; x86_64-pc-linux-gnu) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 X-Greylist: Sender succeeded SMTP AUTH, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.0 (lists.commandprompt.com [207.173.203.159]); Thu, 15 Nov 2007 11:26:32 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: Maia Mailguard 1.0.1 X-Archive-Number: 200711/252 X-Sequence-Number: 13030 LS0tLS1CRUdJTiBQR1AgU0lHTkVEIE1FU1NBR0UtLS0tLQ0KSGFzaDogU0hBMQ0KDQpPbiBUaHUs IDE1IE5vdiAyMDA3IDIwOjI0OjU4ICswMTAwDQpNYWdudXMgSGFnYW5kZXIgPG1hZ251c0BoYWdh bmRlci5uZXQ+IHdyb3RlOg0KDQo+IEpvc2h1YSBELiBEcmFrZSB3cm90ZToNCj4gPiBhZGQgb2Ri Y25nDQo+ID4gZml4ZWQgb2RiYyB1cmwNCj4gPiBmaXhlZCB0Y2wgdXJsDQo+ID4gYWRkZWQgb3Bl biBvZmZpY2Ugc2RiYyBkcml2ZXINCj4gDQo+IENoZWNraW5nIGJlZm9yZSBJIGNoYW5nZS4uLg0K PiANCj4gMSkgSSdkIGxpa2UgdG8gcHV0IHRoZSBvZGJjbmcgZHJpdmVyIGJlbG93IHRoZSBvbmUg dGhhdCdzIHRoZXJlIG5vdy4NCj4gDQo+IDIpIEknZCBsaWtlIHRvIHJlbW92ZSB0aGUgImZyb20g Y29tbWFuZHByb21wdCBpbmMiIHBhcnQuIE5vIG90aGVyDQo+IGludGVyZmFjZXMgbGlzdCB3aGVy ZSB0aGV5J3JlIGZyb20uDQo+IA0KPiBBcmUgeW91IGZpbmUgd2l0aCB0aGVzZSBjaGFuZ2VzPw0K DQpTdXJlIDopIEkgd2FzIGp1c3QgdHJ5aW5nIHRvIGJlIGFscGhhYmV0aWNhbCB3aGljaCBpcyB3 aHkgaSBwdXQgT0RCQ25nDQpmaXJzdCAodmVyc3VzIHBnT0RCQykuDQoNCkpvc2h1YSBELiBEcmFr ZQ0KDQoNCg0KLSAtLSANCg0KICAgICAgPT09IFRoZSBQb3N0Z3JlU1FMIENvbXBhbnk6IENvbW1h bmQgUHJvbXB0LCBJbmMuID09PQ0KU2FsZXMvU3VwcG9ydDogKzEuNTAzLjY2Ny40NTY0ICAgMjR4 Ny9FbWVyZ2VuY3k6ICsxLjgwMC40OTIuMjI0MA0KUG9zdGdyZVNRTCBzb2x1dGlvbnMgc2luY2Ug MTk5NyAgaHR0cDovL3d3dy5jb21tYW5kcHJvbXB0LmNvbS8NCgkJCVVOSVFVRSBOT1QgTlVMTA0K RG9uYXRlIHRvIHRoZSBQb3N0Z3JlU1FMIFByb2plY3Q6IGh0dHA6Ly93d3cucG9zdGdyZXNxbC5v cmcvYWJvdXQvZG9uYXRlDQpQb3N0Z3JlU1FMIFJlcGxpY2F0aW9uOiBodHRwOi8vd3d3LmNvbW1h bmRwcm9tcHQuY29tL3Byb2R1Y3RzLw0KDQotLS0tLUJFR0lOIFBHUCBTSUdOQVRVUkUtLS0tLQ0K VmVyc2lvbjogR251UEcgdjEuNC42IChHTlUvTGludXgpDQoNCmlEOERCUUZIUEoycUFUYi96cWZa VVVRUkFqMnBBSjBkWU43VWppa2kyblNBaDdMdkt6Z3MyUEtkSFFDZ21LZC8NClcrcGxMNXk3RUt5 RGlMb0tNU1BEZDBBPQ0KPTVsZXENCi0tLS0tRU5EIFBHUCBTSUdOQVRVUkUtLS0tLQ0K From magnus@hagander.net Thu Nov 15 20:10:32 2007 Received: from localhost (unknown [200.46.204.183]) by postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 82F692E2D8E for ; Thu, 15 Nov 2007 16:10:32 -0400 (AST) Received: from postgresql.org ([200.46.204.71]) by localhost (mx1.hub.org [200.46.204.183]) (amavisd-maia, port 10024) with ESMTP id 06528-03 for ; Thu, 15 Nov 2007 16:10:30 -0400 (AST) Received: from svr2.hagander.net (svr2.hagander.net [88.198.128.226]) by postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1ED132E1D81 for ; Thu, 15 Nov 2007 16:10:30 -0400 (AST) Received: from dynamic.hagander.net ([127.0.0.1]) (encrypted and authenticated) by svr2.hagander.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1FCA7DCCABC; Thu, 15 Nov 2007 21:10:29 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <473CA7D2.4000101@hagander.net> Date: Thu, 15 Nov 2007 21:10:58 +0100 From: Magnus Hagander User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.9 (X11/20071031) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Joshua D. Drake" CC: pgsql-www@postgresql.org Subject: Re: change to interfaces.html References: <20071115105151.79ff8061@scratch> In-Reply-To: <20071115105151.79ff8061@scratch> X-Enigmail-Version: 0.95.5 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: Maia Mailguard 1.0.1 X-Archive-Number: 200711/257 X-Sequence-Number: 13035 Joshua D. Drake wrote: > add odbcng > fixed odbc url > fixed tcl url > added open office sdbc driver Modified version applied, thanks. //Magnus From scrappy@hub.org Fri Nov 16 01:01:54 2007 Received: from localhost (unknown [200.46.204.183]) by postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2252F2E2DCF for ; Thu, 15 Nov 2007 21:01:54 -0400 (AST) Received: from postgresql.org ([200.46.204.71]) by localhost (mx1.hub.org [200.46.204.183]) (amavisd-maia, port 10024) with ESMTP id 66149-04 for ; Thu, 15 Nov 2007 21:01:53 -0400 (AST) Received: from hub.org (hub.org [200.46.204.220]) by postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 423762E2DB8 for ; Thu, 15 Nov 2007 21:01:53 -0400 (AST) Received: from localhost (unknown [200.46.204.184]) by hub.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3BA9C11FE719 for ; Thu, 15 Nov 2007 21:01:53 -0400 (AST) Received: from hub.org ([200.46.204.220]) by localhost (mx1.hub.org [200.46.204.184]) (amavisd-maia, port 10024) with ESMTP id 08099-08; Thu, 15 Nov 2007 21:01:24 -0400 (AST) Received: from fserv.hub.org (blk-7-245-234.eastlink.ca [71.7.245.234]) by hub.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BCB5611FE6E4; Thu, 15 Nov 2007 21:01:48 -0400 (AST) Received: from [192.168.1.2] (unknown [192.168.1.2]) by fserv.hub.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A5E81360A2; Thu, 15 Nov 2007 21:01:52 -0400 (AST) Date: Thu, 15 Nov 2007 21:01:05 -0400 From: "Marc G. Fournier" To: "Joshua D. Drake" , Magnus Hagander cc: pgsql-www@postgresql.org Subject: Re: change to interfaces.html Message-ID: <9B276A8E7D64C7A3E5CFD1ED@ganymede.hub.org> In-Reply-To: <20071115112738.60c3a837@scratch> References: <20071115105151.79ff8061@scratch> <473C9D0A.1090409@hagander.net> <20071115112738.60c3a837@scratch> X-Mailer: Mulberry/4.0.8 (Linux/x86) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline X-Virus-Scanned: Maia Mailguard 1.0.1 X-Virus-Scanned: Maia Mailguard 1.0.1 X-Archive-Number: 200711/265 X-Sequence-Number: 13043 -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 - --On Thursday, November 15, 2007 11:27:38 -0800 "Joshua D. Drake" wrote: > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > Hash: SHA1 > > On Thu, 15 Nov 2007 20:24:58 +0100 > Magnus Hagander wrote: > >> Joshua D. Drake wrote: >> > add odbcng >> > fixed odbc url >> > fixed tcl url >> > added open office sdbc driver >> >> Checking before I change... >> >> 1) I'd like to put the odbcng driver below the one that's there now. >> >> 2) I'd like to remove the "from commandprompt inc" part. No other >> interfaces list where they're from. >> >> Are you fine with these changes? > > Sure :) I was just trying to be alphabetical which is why i put ODBCng > first (versus pgODBC). That makes sense .. some sort of logical order would make it easier to find things ... - ---- Marc G. Fournier Hub.Org Networking Services (http://www.hub.org) Email . scrappy@hub.org MSN . scrappy@hub.org Yahoo . yscrappy Skype: hub.org ICQ . 7615664 -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.4 (FreeBSD) iD8DBQFHPOvR4QvfyHIvDvMRAqYNAJ92N0rz5wnWgn5IFyKAd+FrtT64WQCgrAcP mRjBYyB1EBahs8Fwgiy4UV0= =Aka5 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From dpage@postgresql.org Fri Nov 16 08:52:02 2007 Received: from localhost (unknown [200.46.204.182]) by postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6AD392E2D94 for ; Fri, 16 Nov 2007 04:52:02 -0400 (AST) Received: from postgresql.org ([200.46.204.71]) by localhost (mx1.hub.org [200.46.204.182]) (amavisd-maia, port 10024) with ESMTP id 13396-06 for ; Fri, 16 Nov 2007 04:51:57 -0400 (AST) Received: from developer.pgadmin.org (developer.pgadmin.org [63.246.23.140]) by postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 826052E2D9D for ; Fri, 16 Nov 2007 04:51:59 -0400 (AST) Received: from [172.16.0.68] ([89.240.194.76]) (authenticated bits=0) by developer.pgadmin.org (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id lAG8pqcK006041 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Fri, 16 Nov 2007 08:51:53 GMT Message-ID: <473D5A2A.9070904@postgresql.org> Date: Fri, 16 Nov 2007 08:51:54 +0000 From: Dave Page User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.6 (Windows/20070728) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Marc G. Fournier" CC: "Joshua D. Drake" , Magnus Hagander , pgsql-www@postgresql.org Subject: Re: change to interfaces.html References: <20071115105151.79ff8061@scratch> <473C9D0A.1090409@hagander.net> <20071115112738.60c3a837@scratch> <9B276A8E7D64C7A3E5CFD1ED@ganymede.hub.org> In-Reply-To: <9B276A8E7D64C7A3E5CFD1ED@ganymede.hub.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: Maia Mailguard 1.0.1 X-Archive-Number: 200711/270 X-Sequence-Number: 13048 Marc G. Fournier wrote: >> Sure :) I was just trying to be alphabetical which is why i put ODBCng >> first (versus pgODBC). > > That makes sense .. some sort of logical order would make it easier to find > things ... Except it then looks like we prefer the Command Prompt code over the community code. /D From scrappy@hub.org Fri Nov 16 09:07:20 2007 Received: from localhost (unknown [200.46.204.182]) by postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 63B8F2E2DC3; Fri, 16 Nov 2007 05:07:20 -0400 (AST) Received: from postgresql.org ([200.46.204.71]) by localhost (mx1.hub.org [200.46.204.182]) (amavisd-maia, port 10024) with ESMTP id 22731-01; Fri, 16 Nov 2007 05:07:16 -0400 (AST) Received: from hub.org (hub.org [200.46.204.220]) by postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 94C1C2E2DE7; Fri, 16 Nov 2007 05:07:19 -0400 (AST) Received: from localhost (unknown [200.46.204.182]) by hub.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8EAC011FE727; Fri, 16 Nov 2007 05:07:19 -0400 (AST) Received: from hub.org ([200.46.204.220]) by localhost (mx1.hub.org [200.46.204.182]) (amavisd-maia, port 10024) with ESMTP id 19460-10; Fri, 16 Nov 2007 05:07:08 -0400 (AST) Received: from fserv.hub.org (blk-7-245-234.eastlink.ca [71.7.245.234]) by hub.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 72F9A11FE716; Fri, 16 Nov 2007 05:07:11 -0400 (AST) Received: from [192.168.1.2] (unknown [192.168.1.2]) by fserv.hub.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 14EDC362CA; Fri, 16 Nov 2007 05:07:21 -0400 (AST) Date: Fri, 16 Nov 2007 05:06:27 -0400 From: "Marc G. Fournier" To: Dave Page cc: "Joshua D. Drake" , Magnus Hagander , pgsql-www@postgresql.org Subject: Re: change to interfaces.html Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <473D5A2A.9070904@postgresql.org> References: <20071115105151.79ff8061@scratch> <473C9D0A.1090409@hagander.net> <20071115112738.60c3a837@scratch> <9B276A8E7D64C7A3E5CFD1ED@ganymede.hub.org> <473D5A2A.9070904@postgresql.org> X-Mailer: Mulberry/4.0.8 (Linux/x86) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline X-Virus-Scanned: Maia Mailguard 1.0.1 X-Virus-Scanned: Maia Mailguard 1.0.1 X-Archive-Number: 200711/272 X-Sequence-Number: 13050 -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 - --On Friday, November 16, 2007 08:51:54 +0000 Dave Page wrote: > Marc G. Fournier wrote: >>> Sure :) I was just trying to be alphabetical which is why i put ODBCng >>> first (versus pgODBC). >> >> That makes sense .. some sort of logical order would make it easier to find >> things ... > > Except it then looks like we prefer the Command Prompt code over the > community code. No, then it looks like its in alphabetical order ... *now* it looks like we prefer one over the other, since there is no order to it ... - ---- Marc G. Fournier Hub.Org Networking Services (http://www.hub.org) Email . scrappy@hub.org MSN . scrappy@hub.org Yahoo . yscrappy Skype: hub.org ICQ . 7615664 -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.4 (FreeBSD) iD8DBQFHPV2T4QvfyHIvDvMRAgtDAJ9WLhT/EKWbO7Zq3qe3kBm8ghGagACcD0/4 doCzjH9IvUf+J+QELYPeaao= =GeQk -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From dpage@postgresql.org Fri Nov 16 09:17:04 2007 Received: from localhost (unknown [200.46.204.182]) by postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 807E92E2DC1 for ; Fri, 16 Nov 2007 05:17:04 -0400 (AST) Received: from postgresql.org ([200.46.204.71]) by localhost (mx1.hub.org [200.46.204.182]) (amavisd-maia, port 10024) with ESMTP id 27092-02 for ; Fri, 16 Nov 2007 05:16:56 -0400 (AST) Received: from developer.pgadmin.org (developer.pgadmin.org [63.246.23.140]) by postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4BD1F2E2D6B for ; Fri, 16 Nov 2007 05:16:59 -0400 (AST) Received: from [172.16.0.68] ([89.240.194.76]) (authenticated bits=0) by developer.pgadmin.org (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id lAG9Gphh012881 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Fri, 16 Nov 2007 09:16:52 GMT Message-ID: <473D6006.7080504@postgresql.org> Date: Fri, 16 Nov 2007 09:16:54 +0000 From: Dave Page User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.9 (Windows/20071031) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Marc G. Fournier" CC: "Joshua D. Drake" , Magnus Hagander , pgsql-www@postgresql.org Subject: Re: change to interfaces.html References: <20071115105151.79ff8061@scratch> <473C9D0A.1090409@hagander.net> <20071115112738.60c3a837@scratch> <9B276A8E7D64C7A3E5CFD1ED@ganymede.hub.org> <473D5A2A.9070904@postgresql.org> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: Maia Mailguard 1.0.1 X-Archive-Number: 200711/273 X-Sequence-Number: 13051 Marc G. Fournier wrote: > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > Hash: SHA1 > > > > - --On Friday, November 16, 2007 08:51:54 +0000 Dave Page > wrote: > >> Marc G. Fournier wrote: >>>> Sure :) I was just trying to be alphabetical which is why i put ODBCng >>>> first (versus pgODBC). >>> That makes sense .. some sort of logical order would make it easier to find >>> things ... >> Except it then looks like we prefer the Command Prompt code over the >> community code. > > No, then it looks like its in alphabetical order ... *now* it looks like we > prefer one over the other, since there is no order to it ... We do - we prefer the community code over the one produced and maintained by a single company, and released under a licence that is potentially very restrictive (depending on the interpretation which has yet to be tested in court afaik). /D From scrappy@hub.org Fri Nov 16 09:32:12 2007 Received: from localhost (unknown [200.46.204.183]) by postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 91B9A2E2D4B; Fri, 16 Nov 2007 05:32:12 -0400 (AST) Received: from postgresql.org ([200.46.204.71]) by localhost (mx1.hub.org [200.46.204.183]) (amavisd-maia, port 10024) with ESMTP id 13539-04; Fri, 16 Nov 2007 05:32:07 -0400 (AST) Received: from hub.org (hub.org [200.46.204.220]) by postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 95AAA2E2D78; Fri, 16 Nov 2007 05:32:07 -0400 (AST) Received: from localhost (unknown [200.46.204.187]) by hub.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8F01B11FE724; Fri, 16 Nov 2007 05:32:07 -0400 (AST) Received: from hub.org ([200.46.204.220]) by localhost (mx1.hub.org [200.46.204.187]) (amavisd-maia, port 10024) with ESMTP id 20211-04; Fri, 16 Nov 2007 05:31:55 -0400 (AST) Received: from fserv.hub.org (blk-7-245-234.eastlink.ca [71.7.245.234]) by hub.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 16E0A11FE71A; Fri, 16 Nov 2007 05:31:57 -0400 (AST) Received: from [192.168.1.2] (unknown [192.168.1.2]) by fserv.hub.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BA39D363B8; Fri, 16 Nov 2007 05:32:07 -0400 (AST) Date: Fri, 16 Nov 2007 05:31:13 -0400 From: "Marc G. Fournier" To: Dave Page cc: "Joshua D. Drake" , Magnus Hagander , pgsql-www@postgresql.org Subject: Re: change to interfaces.html Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <473D6006.7080504@postgresql.org> References: <20071115105151.79ff8061@scratch> <473C9D0A.1090409@hagander.net> <20071115112738.60c3a837@scratch> <9B276A8E7D64C7A3E5CFD1ED@ganymede.hub.org> <473D5A2A.9070904@postgresql.org> <473D6006.7080504@postgresql.org> X-Mailer: Mulberry/4.0.8 (Linux/x86) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline X-Virus-Scanned: Maia Mailguard 1.0.1 X-Virus-Scanned: Maia Mailguard 1.0.1 X-Archive-Number: 200711/274 X-Sequence-Number: 13052 -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 - --On Friday, November 16, 2007 09:16:54 +0000 Dave Page wrote: > Marc G. Fournier wrote: >> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- >> Hash: SHA1 >> >> >> >> - --On Friday, November 16, 2007 08:51:54 +0000 Dave Page >> wrote: >> >>> Marc G. Fournier wrote: >>>>> Sure :) I was just trying to be alphabetical which is why i put ODBCng >>>>> first (versus pgODBC). >>>> That makes sense .. some sort of logical order would make it easier to find >>>> things ... >>> Except it then looks like we prefer the Command Prompt code over the >>> community code. >> >> No, then it looks like its in alphabetical order ... *now* it looks like we >> prefer one over the other, since there is no order to it ... > > We do - we prefer the community code over the one produced and maintained by > a single company, and released under a licence that is potentially very > restrictive (depending on the interpretation which has yet to be tested in > court afaik). Then that should be stated on the page to avoid confusion,w hat the ordering is based on ... - ---- Marc G. Fournier Hub.Org Networking Services (http://www.hub.org) Email . scrappy@hub.org MSN . scrappy@hub.org Yahoo . yscrappy Skype: hub.org ICQ . 7615664 -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.4 (FreeBSD) iD8DBQFHPWNh4QvfyHIvDvMRAldpAJ0XzkUv25mLdGL1cJ0v8aWhVSUO6ACcDVKf C7Vc7neUZfblTpe8J81GiJo= =vU7o -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From jd@commandprompt.com Fri Nov 16 15:40:35 2007 Received: from localhost (unknown [200.46.204.183]) by postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 354162E2DD6; Fri, 16 Nov 2007 11:40:35 -0400 (AST) Received: from postgresql.org ([200.46.204.71]) by localhost (mx1.hub.org [200.46.204.183]) (amavisd-maia, port 10024) with ESMTP id 92505-02; Fri, 16 Nov 2007 11:40:32 -0400 (AST) Received: from lists.commandprompt.com (host-159.commandprompt.net [207.173.203.159]) by postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 64CF32E2DD0; Fri, 16 Nov 2007 11:40:32 -0400 (AST) Received: from [192.168.1.4] (or-69-34-217-90.sta.embarqhsd.net [69.34.217.90]) (authenticated bits=0) by lists.commandprompt.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id lAGFePkU013709 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Fri, 16 Nov 2007 07:40:25 -0800 Message-ID: <473DB9E9.3000006@commandprompt.com> Date: Fri, 16 Nov 2007 07:40:25 -0800 From: "Joshua D. Drake" Organization: Command Prompt, Inc. User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.13 (Windows/20070809) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Dave Page CC: "Marc G. Fournier" , Magnus Hagander , pgsql-www@postgresql.org Subject: Re: change to interfaces.html References: <20071115105151.79ff8061@scratch> <473C9D0A.1090409@hagander.net> <20071115112738.60c3a837@scratch> <9B276A8E7D64C7A3E5CFD1ED@ganymede.hub.org> <473D5A2A.9070904@postgresql.org> <473D6006.7080504@postgresql.org> In-Reply-To: <473D6006.7080504@postgresql.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Greylist: Sender succeeded SMTP AUTH, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.0 (lists.commandprompt.com [207.173.203.159]); Fri, 16 Nov 2007 07:40:26 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: Maia Mailguard 1.0.1 X-Archive-Number: 200711/280 X-Sequence-Number: 13058 Dave Page wrote: > Marc G. Fournier wrote: >> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- >> Hash: SHA1 > We do - we prefer the community code over the one produced and > maintained by a single company, and released under a licence that is > potentially very restrictive (depending on the interpretation which has > yet to be tested in court afaik). Uhmmm o.k. now I am ticked. Dave you are full of it on this one. The license chosen is one the most trusted Open Source licenses in existed. It is the GPL for god sake. And although we are the primary developers of ODBCng we do accept patches, the source can be downloaded via Anonymous SVN. There is no different between ODBC and ODBCng except your ridiculous and ignorant attitude. The real difference between ODBCng and ODBC is that ODBCng is continually tested, continually developed, and continually improved. Or is that the part that bothers you? Joshua D. Drake > > /D > > ---------------------------(end of broadcast)--------------------------- > TIP 5: don't forget to increase your free space map settings > From jd@commandprompt.com Fri Nov 16 15:41:06 2007 Received: from localhost (unknown [200.46.204.182]) by postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6C2912E2DDB; Fri, 16 Nov 2007 11:41:06 -0400 (AST) Received: from postgresql.org ([200.46.204.71]) by localhost (mx1.hub.org [200.46.204.182]) (amavisd-maia, port 10024) with ESMTP id 01937-10; Fri, 16 Nov 2007 11:40:56 -0400 (AST) Received: from lists.commandprompt.com (host-159.commandprompt.net [207.173.203.159]) by postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 464E82E2DD6; Fri, 16 Nov 2007 11:41:02 -0400 (AST) Received: from [192.168.1.4] (or-69-34-217-90.sta.embarqhsd.net [69.34.217.90]) (authenticated bits=0) by lists.commandprompt.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id lAGFeub7013778 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Fri, 16 Nov 2007 07:40:57 -0800 Message-ID: <473DBA09.5090001@commandprompt.com> Date: Fri, 16 Nov 2007 07:40:57 -0800 From: "Joshua D. Drake" Organization: Command Prompt, Inc. User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.13 (Windows/20070809) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Marc G. Fournier" CC: Dave Page , Magnus Hagander , pgsql-www@postgresql.org Subject: Re: change to interfaces.html References: <20071115105151.79ff8061@scratch> <473C9D0A.1090409@hagander.net> <20071115112738.60c3a837@scratch> <9B276A8E7D64C7A3E5CFD1ED@ganymede.hub.org> <473D5A2A.9070904@postgresql.org> <473D6006.7080504@postgresql.org> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Greylist: Sender succeeded SMTP AUTH, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.0 (lists.commandprompt.com [207.173.203.159]); Fri, 16 Nov 2007 07:40:57 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: Maia Mailguard 1.0.1 X-Archive-Number: 200711/281 X-Sequence-Number: 13059 Marc G. Fournier wrote: > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > Hash: SHA1 >>> No, then it looks like its in alphabetical order ... *now* it looks like we >>> prefer one over the other, since there is no order to it ... >> We do - we prefer the community code over the one produced and maintained by >> a single company, and released under a licence that is potentially very >> restrictive (depending on the interpretation which has yet to be tested in >> court afaik). > > Then that should be stated on the page to avoid confusion,w hat the ordering is > based on ... ODBCng is community code. Joshua D. Drake > > - ---- > Marc G. Fournier Hub.Org Networking Services (http://www.hub.org) > Email . scrappy@hub.org MSN . scrappy@hub.org > Yahoo . yscrappy Skype: hub.org ICQ . 7615664 > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- > Version: GnuPG v2.0.4 (FreeBSD) > > iD8DBQFHPWNh4QvfyHIvDvMRAldpAJ0XzkUv25mLdGL1cJ0v8aWhVSUO6ACcDVKf > C7Vc7neUZfblTpe8J81GiJo= > =vU7o > -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- > From magnus@hagander.net Fri Nov 16 15:51:21 2007 Received: from localhost (unknown [200.46.204.182]) by postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E60ED2E2E59; Fri, 16 Nov 2007 11:51:21 -0400 (AST) Received: from postgresql.org ([200.46.204.71]) by localhost (mx1.hub.org [200.46.204.182]) (amavisd-maia, port 10024) with ESMTP id 15522-01; Fri, 16 Nov 2007 11:51:11 -0400 (AST) Received: from svr2.hagander.net (svr2.hagander.net [88.198.128.226]) by postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8F6FB2E2E57; Fri, 16 Nov 2007 11:51:17 -0400 (AST) Received: from dynamic.hagander.net ([127.0.0.1]) (encrypted and authenticated) by svr2.hagander.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id B2321DCCAF9; Fri, 16 Nov 2007 16:51:15 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <473DBC91.3000409@hagander.net> Date: Fri, 16 Nov 2007 16:51:45 +0100 From: Magnus Hagander User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.9 (X11/20071031) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Joshua D. Drake" CC: Dave Page , "Marc G. Fournier" , pgsql-www@postgresql.org Subject: Re: change to interfaces.html References: <20071115105151.79ff8061@scratch> <473C9D0A.1090409@hagander.net> <20071115112738.60c3a837@scratch> <9B276A8E7D64C7A3E5CFD1ED@ganymede.hub.org> <473D5A2A.9070904@postgresql.org> <473D6006.7080504@postgresql.org> <473DB9E9.3000006@commandprompt.com> In-Reply-To: <473DB9E9.3000006@commandprompt.com> X-Enigmail-Version: 0.95.5 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: Maia Mailguard 1.0.1 X-Archive-Number: 200711/283 X-Sequence-Number: 13061 Joshua D. Drake wrote: > Dave Page wrote: >> Marc G. Fournier wrote: > >> We do - we prefer the community code over the one produced and >> maintained by a single company, and released under a licence that is >> potentially very restrictive (depending on the interpretation which >> has yet to be tested in court afaik). > > Uhmmm o.k. now I am ticked. Dave you are full of it on this one. The > license chosen is one the most trusted Open Source licenses in existed. > It is the GPL for god sake. I believe Dave is referring to the part about if the "linking" of a driver counts enough to force the application to become GPL or not that hasn't been tested. LGPL conveniently gets around that problem. > And although we are the primary developers of ODBCng we do accept > patches, the source can be downloaded via Anonymous SVN. > > There is no different between ODBC and ODBCng except your ridiculous and > ignorant attitude. > > The real difference between ODBCng and ODBC is that ODBCng is > continually tested, continually developed, and continually improved. Or > is that the part that bothers you? From dpage@postgresql.org Fri Nov 16 15:58:05 2007 Received: from localhost (unknown [200.46.204.182]) by postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8C69C2E2E59 for ; Fri, 16 Nov 2007 11:58:05 -0400 (AST) Received: from postgresql.org ([200.46.204.71]) by localhost (mx1.hub.org [200.46.204.182]) (amavisd-maia, port 10024) with ESMTP id 16155-09 for ; Fri, 16 Nov 2007 11:57:56 -0400 (AST) Received: from developer.pgadmin.org (developer.pgadmin.org [63.246.23.140]) by postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3E9022E2E5D for ; Fri, 16 Nov 2007 11:58:02 -0400 (AST) Received: from [172.16.0.68] ([78.149.184.17]) (authenticated bits=0) by developer.pgadmin.org (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id lAGFvsFq022610 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Fri, 16 Nov 2007 15:57:55 GMT Message-ID: <473DBE05.2030609@postgresql.org> Date: Fri, 16 Nov 2007 15:57:57 +0000 From: Dave Page User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.9 (Windows/20071031) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Joshua D. Drake" CC: "Marc G. Fournier" , Magnus Hagander , pgsql-www@postgresql.org Subject: Re: change to interfaces.html References: <20071115105151.79ff8061@scratch> <473C9D0A.1090409@hagander.net> <20071115112738.60c3a837@scratch> <9B276A8E7D64C7A3E5CFD1ED@ganymede.hub.org> <473D5A2A.9070904@postgresql.org> <473D6006.7080504@postgresql.org> <473DB9E9.3000006@commandprompt.com> In-Reply-To: <473DB9E9.3000006@commandprompt.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: Maia Mailguard 1.0.1 X-Archive-Number: 200711/285 X-Sequence-Number: 13063 Joshua D. Drake wrote: > Dave Page wrote: >> Marc G. Fournier wrote: >>> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- >>> Hash: SHA1 > >> We do - we prefer the community code over the one produced and >> maintained by a single company, and released under a licence that is >> potentially very restrictive (depending on the interpretation which >> has yet to be tested in court afaik). > > Uhmmm o.k. now I am ticked. Dave you are full of it on this one. The > license chosen is one the most trusted Open Source licenses in existed. > It is the GPL for god sake. Yes, which is a constant cause of debate when used with a driver, for example: - The discussions that have cropped up yet again a week or two back on the ODBC mailing list. - The general Open Source community's annoyance at MySQL GPL'ing their drivers precisely because they want people to pay for the non-GPL licence. > And although we are the primary developers of ODBCng we do accept > patches, the source can be downloaded via Anonymous SVN. I didn't say you didn't. > There is no different between ODBC and ODBCng except your ridiculous and > ignorant attitude. You are expecting the PostgreSQL Community to not favour it's own driver on it's own website over one maintained by a third party company? Thats not at all ridiculous. I can just imagine what you would say if I tried to push an EDB product over an community one *on the community website*. > The real difference between ODBCng and ODBC is that ODBCng is > continually tested, continually developed, and continually improved. Or > is that the part that bothers you? > Not at all. Hiroshi Saito and Hiroshi Inoue have been doing an excellent job on psqlODBC over the last year or more. /D From jd@commandprompt.com Fri Nov 16 16:02:57 2007 Received: from localhost (unknown [200.46.204.183]) by postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id F41112E2D90; Fri, 16 Nov 2007 12:02:57 -0400 (AST) Received: from postgresql.org ([200.46.204.71]) by localhost (mx1.hub.org [200.46.204.183]) (amavisd-maia, port 10024) with ESMTP id 95282-03; Fri, 16 Nov 2007 12:02:54 -0400 (AST) Received: from lists.commandprompt.com (host-159.commandprompt.net [207.173.203.159]) by postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 194842E2D82; Fri, 16 Nov 2007 12:02:53 -0400 (AST) Received: from [192.168.1.4] (or-69-34-217-90.sta.embarqhsd.net [69.34.217.90]) (authenticated bits=0) by lists.commandprompt.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id lAGG2mV2015967 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Fri, 16 Nov 2007 08:02:48 -0800 Message-ID: <473DBF28.2080903@commandprompt.com> Date: Fri, 16 Nov 2007 08:02:48 -0800 From: "Joshua D. Drake" Organization: Command Prompt, Inc. User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.13 (Windows/20070809) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Magnus Hagander CC: Dave Page , "Marc G. Fournier" , pgsql-www@postgresql.org Subject: Re: change to interfaces.html References: <20071115105151.79ff8061@scratch> <473C9D0A.1090409@hagander.net> <20071115112738.60c3a837@scratch> <9B276A8E7D64C7A3E5CFD1ED@ganymede.hub.org> <473D5A2A.9070904@postgresql.org> <473D6006.7080504@postgresql.org> <473DB9E9.3000006@commandprompt.com> <473DBC91.3000409@hagander.net> In-Reply-To: <473DBC91.3000409@hagander.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Greylist: Sender succeeded SMTP AUTH, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.0 (lists.commandprompt.com [207.173.203.159]); Fri, 16 Nov 2007 08:02:48 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: Maia Mailguard 1.0.1 X-Archive-Number: 200711/287 X-Sequence-Number: 13065 Magnus Hagander wrote: > Joshua D. Drake wrote: > I believe Dave is referring to the part about if the "linking" of a > driver counts enough to force the application to become GPL or not that > hasn't been tested. LGPL conveniently gets around that problem. As opposed to a license that is licensed by an entity that doesn't exist? It is *not* the projects responsibility to declare the legality of licensing. The driver *is* open source. The driver *is* available via SVN. The driver *is* publicly developed, and anyone can comment or contribute. > > But, just for the record. I put psqlODBC on top for three reasons. > First, it's claimed to be the official driver. If it should claim to be Which is also bogus and a deprecated claim. Dave himself has stated that PostgreSQL.Org has no ability to declare what is official. (When we announced PostgreSQL conference) Further if it is the "official" driver, then it has a huge amount of code cleanup that needs to be done. (not that ours is any better :P) > more peoples requirements. ODBCng doesn't support advanced > authentication methods. That is correct, we only support the ones most people use. > It doesn't support versions < 8.0. Last I That is also correct but I hardly consider whether or not we support ungodly old versions of PostgreSQL relevant. > checked it didn't support SSL, but maybe that's been fixed? > Oddly enough, I don't know. I would have to ask Andrei. > Third, ODBCng is not a production release (according to your own page, I Declaring something production and having it actually be production quality are two different things. If you are saying that I would move up the meter by saying, "Here here is 1.0" then I guess I could do that. Honestly, I don't care that ODBCng is listed below psqlODBC. If I had cared I would have asked you not to accept the patch when you made the changes. That is not why I am upset. I am upset because of the absolutely stupid remark that it is not community code. I will say it one more time for the cheap seats: Just because a company does the primary development that does not mean it is not community code. Command Prompt is "core" on the ODBCng project. Nothing more. Sincerely, Joshua D. Drake From jd@commandprompt.com Fri Nov 16 16:08:27 2007 Received: from localhost (unknown [200.46.204.184]) by postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 922222E2DAE; Fri, 16 Nov 2007 12:08:27 -0400 (AST) Received: from postgresql.org ([200.46.204.71]) by localhost (mx1.hub.org [200.46.204.184]) (amavisd-maia, port 10024) with ESMTP id 89095-10; Fri, 16 Nov 2007 12:08:15 -0400 (AST) Received: from lists.commandprompt.com (host-159.commandprompt.net [207.173.203.159]) by postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B44D12E2368; Fri, 16 Nov 2007 12:08:23 -0400 (AST) Received: from [192.168.1.4] (or-69-34-217-90.sta.embarqhsd.net [69.34.217.90]) (authenticated bits=0) by lists.commandprompt.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id lAGG8IVH016190 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Fri, 16 Nov 2007 08:08:19 -0800 Message-ID: <473DC073.4030603@commandprompt.com> Date: Fri, 16 Nov 2007 08:08:19 -0800 From: "Joshua D. Drake" Organization: Command Prompt, Inc. User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.13 (Windows/20070809) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Dave Page CC: "Marc G. Fournier" , Magnus Hagander , pgsql-www@postgresql.org Subject: Re: change to interfaces.html References: <20071115105151.79ff8061@scratch> <473C9D0A.1090409@hagander.net> <20071115112738.60c3a837@scratch> <9B276A8E7D64C7A3E5CFD1ED@ganymede.hub.org> <473D5A2A.9070904@postgresql.org> <473D6006.7080504@postgresql.org> <473DB9E9.3000006@commandprompt.com> <473DBE05.2030609@postgresql.org> In-Reply-To: <473DBE05.2030609@postgresql.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Greylist: Sender succeeded SMTP AUTH, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.0 (lists.commandprompt.com [207.173.203.159]); Fri, 16 Nov 2007 08:08:19 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: Maia Mailguard 1.0.1 X-Archive-Number: 200711/288 X-Sequence-Number: 13066 Dave Page wrote: > Joshua D. Drake wrote: > Yes, which is a constant cause of debate when used with a driver, for > example: > > - The discussions that have cropped up yet again a week or two back on > the ODBC mailing list. We are not attorneys. It is under what is probably the most prevalent FOSS license. > > - The general Open Source community's annoyance at MySQL GPL'ing their > drivers precisely because they want people to pay for the non-GPL licence. Uhh, how does that have *anything* to do with this? This isn't MySQL. And guess what... MySQL has every right to do with what they want with their code. It is no the communities business regardless of what all of us dirty hippies would like think. > >> There is no different between ODBC and ODBCng except your ridiculous >> and ignorant attitude. > > You are expecting the PostgreSQL Community to not favour it's own driver > on it's own website over one maintained by a third party company? Thats > not at all ridiculous. Uhh... no. I never said that and you should know better. However, Alphabetical order is not favoritism. Putting it in bold and saying "Hey this is the Command Prompt driver", would be favoritism. > > I can just imagine what you would say if I tried to push an EDB product > over an community one *on the community website*. > If it was just an alphabetical listing of "OPEN SOURCE" software, then I would not have a problem with it. Sincerely, Joshua D. Drake From dpage@postgresql.org Fri Nov 16 16:22:27 2007 Received: from localhost (unknown [200.46.204.182]) by postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C84272E2DF6 for ; Fri, 16 Nov 2007 12:22:27 -0400 (AST) Received: from postgresql.org ([200.46.204.71]) by localhost (mx1.hub.org [200.46.204.182]) (amavisd-maia, port 10024) with ESMTP id 61930-02-6 for ; Fri, 16 Nov 2007 12:22:21 -0400 (AST) Received: from developer.pgadmin.org (developer.pgadmin.org [63.246.23.140]) by postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9FA1B2E2DDA for ; Fri, 16 Nov 2007 12:22:10 -0400 (AST) Received: from [172.16.0.68] ([78.149.184.17]) (authenticated bits=0) by developer.pgadmin.org (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id lAGGM2gk023117 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Fri, 16 Nov 2007 16:22:05 GMT Message-ID: <473DC3AD.7050104@postgresql.org> Date: Fri, 16 Nov 2007 16:22:05 +0000 From: Dave Page User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.9 (Windows/20071031) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Joshua D. Drake" CC: Magnus Hagander , "Marc G. Fournier" , pgsql-www@postgresql.org Subject: Re: change to interfaces.html References: <20071115105151.79ff8061@scratch> <473C9D0A.1090409@hagander.net> <20071115112738.60c3a837@scratch> <9B276A8E7D64C7A3E5CFD1ED@ganymede.hub.org> <473D5A2A.9070904@postgresql.org> <473D6006.7080504@postgresql.org> <473DB9E9.3000006@commandprompt.com> <473DBC91.3000409@hagander.net> <473DBF28.2080903@commandprompt.com> In-Reply-To: <473DBF28.2080903@commandprompt.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: Maia Mailguard 1.0.1 X-Archive-Number: 200711/290 X-Sequence-Number: 13068 Joshua D. Drake wrote: > Just because a company does the primary development that does not mean > it is not community code. Command Prompt is "core" on the ODBCng > project. Nothing more. Then you and I clearly have a different definition of 'community'. I use the word to mean a project that is run under the community banner, e.g. postgresql.org or pgfoundry.org or some other public open source project site, and more importantly, is not likely to be mistaken as a poduct of a commercial entity. In this case the website is well and truly CP branded, clearly labelled as commercially supported by you, and on a site which doesn't seem to want to let me register as a contributor, and doesn't give me any clues about where I should submit a patch, except possibly the mailing list - but that doesn't say whether it's a developers list, announce list or what :-( I don't even seem to be able to log a ticket - there's no email address I can see, nor is there an obvious 'Log a Ticket' link anywhere. My only option seems to be the company providing commercial support, or the big yellow 'Contact Us' button. Oh, hang on... Regards, Dave From dpage@postgresql.org Fri Nov 16 16:30:10 2007 Received: from localhost (unknown [200.46.204.182]) by postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 30E7E2E2D68 for ; Fri, 16 Nov 2007 12:30:10 -0400 (AST) Received: from postgresql.org ([200.46.204.71]) by localhost (mx1.hub.org [200.46.204.182]) (amavisd-maia, port 10024) with ESMTP id 71987-02 for ; Fri, 16 Nov 2007 12:30:04 -0400 (AST) Received: from developer.pgadmin.org (developer.pgadmin.org [63.246.23.140]) by postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B5E262E2E5D for ; Fri, 16 Nov 2007 12:30:04 -0400 (AST) Received: from [172.16.0.68] ([78.149.184.17]) (authenticated bits=0) by developer.pgadmin.org (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id lAGGTu2J023317 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Fri, 16 Nov 2007 16:29:58 GMT Message-ID: <473DC587.7040609@postgresql.org> Date: Fri, 16 Nov 2007 16:29:59 +0000 From: Dave Page User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.9 (Windows/20071031) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Joshua D. Drake" CC: "Marc G. Fournier" , Magnus Hagander , pgsql-www@postgresql.org Subject: Re: change to interfaces.html References: <20071115105151.79ff8061@scratch> <473C9D0A.1090409@hagander.net> <20071115112738.60c3a837@scratch> <9B276A8E7D64C7A3E5CFD1ED@ganymede.hub.org> <473D5A2A.9070904@postgresql.org> <473D6006.7080504@postgresql.org> <473DB9E9.3000006@commandprompt.com> <473DBE05.2030609@postgresql.org> <473DC073.4030603@commandprompt.com> In-Reply-To: <473DC073.4030603@commandprompt.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: Maia Mailguard 1.0.1 X-Archive-Number: 200711/291 X-Sequence-Number: 13069 Joshua D. Drake wrote: > If it was just an alphabetical listing of "OPEN SOURCE" software, then I > would not have a problem with it. Well, there's the problem. It wasn't alphabetical to begin with anyway. /D From ajs@crankycanuck.ca Fri Nov 16 16:36:12 2007 Received: from localhost (unknown [200.46.204.191]) by postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 41BCC2E2D7D for ; Fri, 16 Nov 2007 12:36:12 -0400 (AST) Received: from postgresql.org ([200.46.204.71]) by localhost (mx1.hub.org [200.46.204.191]) (amavisd-maia, port 10024) with ESMTP id 51327-07 for ; Fri, 16 Nov 2007 12:36:09 -0400 (AST) Received: from main2.mycybernet.net (main2.mycybernet.net [209.222.63.140]) by postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id F3EE52E2D3E for ; Fri, 16 Nov 2007 12:36:08 -0400 (AST) Received: from 227-54-222-209.mycybernet.net ([209.222.54.227] helo=crankycanuck.ca) by main2.mycybernet.net with esmtp (Exim 4.62) (envelope-from ) id 1It4AW-00045X-74 for pgsql-www@postgresql.org; Fri, 16 Nov 2007 11:35:48 -0500 Received: by crankycanuck.ca (Postfix, from userid 1000) id EF147504FD; Fri, 16 Nov 2007 11:35:42 -0500 (EST) Date: Fri, 16 Nov 2007 11:35:42 -0500 From: Andrew Sullivan To: pgsql-www@postgresql.org Subject: Re: change to interfaces.html Message-ID: <20071116163542.GL24718@crankycanuck.ca> References: <20071115105151.79ff8061@scratch> <473C9D0A.1090409@hagander.net> <20071115112738.60c3a837@scratch> <9B276A8E7D64C7A3E5CFD1ED@ganymede.hub.org> <473D5A2A.9070904@postgresql.org> <473D6006.7080504@postgresql.org> <473DB9E9.3000006@commandprompt.com> <473DBE05.2030609@postgresql.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <473DBE05.2030609@postgresql.org> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.13 (2006-08-11) X-Virus-Scanned: Maia Mailguard 1.0.1 X-Archive-Number: 200711/292 X-Sequence-Number: 13070 I'd prefer we not get into a flamewar over this, all, but I'm a little concerned about this: On Fri, Nov 16, 2007 at 03:57:57PM +0000, Dave Page wrote: > - The general Open Source community's annoyance at MySQL GPL'ing their > drivers precisely because they want people to pay for the non-GPL licence. I think the complaint there is the dual licence stuff, and not the GPL as such (at least, I'd hope so, since otherwise there'd be a similar objection to the linux kernel licence, and there doesn't seem to be). I don't see on the ODBCng pages any suggestion of a second licence. Is there? A -- Andrew Sullivan Old sigs will return after re-constitution of blue smoke From dpage@postgresql.org Fri Nov 16 16:42:42 2007 Received: from localhost (unknown [200.46.204.191]) by postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 26E562E2D6B for ; Fri, 16 Nov 2007 12:42:42 -0400 (AST) Received: from postgresql.org ([200.46.204.71]) by localhost (mx1.hub.org [200.46.204.191]) (amavisd-maia, port 10024) with ESMTP id 54035-08 for ; Fri, 16 Nov 2007 12:42:39 -0400 (AST) Received: from developer.pgadmin.org (developer.pgadmin.org [63.246.23.140]) by postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 781492E2DD6 for ; Fri, 16 Nov 2007 12:42:39 -0400 (AST) Received: from [172.16.0.68] ([78.149.184.17]) (authenticated bits=0) by developer.pgadmin.org (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id lAGGgU6T023559 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Fri, 16 Nov 2007 16:42:32 GMT Message-ID: <473DC879.8010003@postgresql.org> Date: Fri, 16 Nov 2007 16:42:33 +0000 From: Dave Page User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.9 (Windows/20071031) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Andrew Sullivan CC: pgsql-www@postgresql.org Subject: Re: change to interfaces.html References: <20071115105151.79ff8061@scratch> <473C9D0A.1090409@hagander.net> <20071115112738.60c3a837@scratch> <9B276A8E7D64C7A3E5CFD1ED@ganymede.hub.org> <473D5A2A.9070904@postgresql.org> <473D6006.7080504@postgresql.org> <473DB9E9.3000006@commandprompt.com> <473DBE05.2030609@postgresql.org> <20071116163542.GL24718@crankycanuck.ca> In-Reply-To: <20071116163542.GL24718@crankycanuck.ca> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: Maia Mailguard 1.0.1 X-Archive-Number: 200711/293 X-Sequence-Number: 13071 Andrew Sullivan wrote: > I'd prefer we not get into a flamewar over this, all, but I'm a little > concerned about this: > > On Fri, Nov 16, 2007 at 03:57:57PM +0000, Dave Page wrote: >> - The general Open Source community's annoyance at MySQL GPL'ing their >> drivers precisely because they want people to pay for the non-GPL licence. > > I think the complaint there is the dual licence stuff, and not the GPL as > such (at least, I'd hope so, since otherwise there'd be a similar objection > to the linux kernel licence, and there doesn't seem to be). I don't see on > the ODBCng pages any suggestion of a second licence. Is there? No - I was pointing out that MySQL are an example of a company using the uncertainty of how the GPL would or would not apply to an ODBC driver to help them sell software. I should make it clear that I do not believe that is JD/Command Prompt's intention - JD has stated a number of times that they follow the more liberal interpretation. /D From jd@commandprompt.com Fri Nov 16 16:44:49 2007 Received: from localhost (unknown [200.46.204.187]) by postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 86A462E2D90; Fri, 16 Nov 2007 12:44:49 -0400 (AST) Received: from postgresql.org ([200.46.204.71]) by localhost (mx1.hub.org [200.46.204.187]) (amavisd-maia, port 10024) with ESMTP id 41091-10; Fri, 16 Nov 2007 12:44:42 -0400 (AST) Received: from lists.commandprompt.com (host-159.commandprompt.net [207.173.203.159]) by postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3C3412E2DCE; Fri, 16 Nov 2007 12:44:42 -0400 (AST) Received: from [192.168.1.4] (or-69-34-217-90.sta.embarqhsd.net [69.34.217.90]) (authenticated bits=0) by lists.commandprompt.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id lAGGiamm017951 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Fri, 16 Nov 2007 08:44:37 -0800 Message-ID: <473DC8F4.2040603@commandprompt.com> Date: Fri, 16 Nov 2007 08:44:36 -0800 From: "Joshua D. Drake" Organization: Command Prompt, Inc. User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.13 (Windows/20070809) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Dave Page CC: Magnus Hagander , "Marc G. Fournier" , pgsql-www@postgresql.org Subject: Re: change to interfaces.html References: <20071115105151.79ff8061@scratch> <473C9D0A.1090409@hagander.net> <20071115112738.60c3a837@scratch> <9B276A8E7D64C7A3E5CFD1ED@ganymede.hub.org> <473D5A2A.9070904@postgresql.org> <473D6006.7080504@postgresql.org> <473DB9E9.3000006@commandprompt.com> <473DBC91.3000409@hagander.net> <473DBF28.2080903@commandprompt.com> <473DC3AD.7050104@postgresql.org> In-Reply-To: <473DC3AD.7050104@postgresql.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Greylist: Sender succeeded SMTP AUTH, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.0 (lists.commandprompt.com [207.173.203.159]); Fri, 16 Nov 2007 08:44:37 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: Maia Mailguard 1.0.1 X-Archive-Number: 200711/294 X-Sequence-Number: 13072 Dave Page wrote: > Joshua D. Drake wrote: >> Just because a company does the primary development that does not mean >> it is not community code. Command Prompt is "core" on the ODBCng >> project. Nothing more. > > Then you and I clearly have a different definition of 'community'. I use > the word to mean a project that is run under the community banner, e.g. > postgresql.org or pgfoundry.org or some other public open source project > site, and more importantly, is not likely to be mistaken as a poduct of > a commercial entity. O.k. well then I just say "bah". Your definition is the same as mine. Just because I have ".com" after my domain means nothing. > > In this case the website is well and truly CP branded, PostgreSQL.org is branded as well and *no* there is no difference. > clearly labelled > as commercially supported by you, You are using it as a negative that open source software is commercially supported? > about where I should submit a patch, except possibly the mailing list - > but that doesn't say whether it's a developers list, announce list or > what :-( So your real complaint is that we didn't spend more time on the website and instead chose to keep it bare? O.k. well if you look at the the website again (and for those following the thread): http://projects.commandprompt.com/public/odbcng Notice the use of the word "projects" and "public" and perhaps the large declaratory announcement on the front page that it is GPL (and thus open source). We have also made it more explicit that we invite people to join the development. > > I don't even seem to be able to log a ticket - there's no email address > I can see, nor is there an obvious 'Log a Ticket' link anywhere. > Mailing list. > My only option seems to be the company providing commercial support, or > the big yellow 'Contact Us' button. Oh, hang on... > Again, ignoring the mailing list right there on the front page in black and white. I have updated the website to make it more obvious because although Dave is obviously got a bias here, he had a valid point that we could have been more obvious on how to participate. We have tried to make it more clear now and I hope that this resolves any further disputes. Sincerely, Joshua D. Drake From jd@commandprompt.com Fri Nov 16 16:45:45 2007 Received: from localhost (unknown [200.46.204.183]) by postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BB2CF2E2D90 for ; Fri, 16 Nov 2007 12:45:45 -0400 (AST) Received: from postgresql.org ([200.46.204.71]) by localhost (mx1.hub.org [200.46.204.183]) (amavisd-maia, port 10024) with ESMTP id 80280-04 for ; Fri, 16 Nov 2007 12:45:43 -0400 (AST) Received: from lists.commandprompt.com (host-159.commandprompt.net [207.173.203.159]) by postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4C3372E2D6B for ; Fri, 16 Nov 2007 12:45:43 -0400 (AST) Received: from [192.168.1.4] (or-69-34-217-90.sta.embarqhsd.net [69.34.217.90]) (authenticated bits=0) by lists.commandprompt.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id lAGGjeJc017999 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Fri, 16 Nov 2007 08:45:41 -0800 Message-ID: <473DC935.7030204@commandprompt.com> Date: Fri, 16 Nov 2007 08:45:41 -0800 From: "Joshua D. Drake" Organization: Command Prompt, Inc. User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.13 (Windows/20070809) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Andrew Sullivan CC: pgsql-www@postgresql.org Subject: Re: change to interfaces.html References: <20071115105151.79ff8061@scratch> <473C9D0A.1090409@hagander.net> <20071115112738.60c3a837@scratch> <9B276A8E7D64C7A3E5CFD1ED@ganymede.hub.org> <473D5A2A.9070904@postgresql.org> <473D6006.7080504@postgresql.org> <473DB9E9.3000006@commandprompt.com> <473DBE05.2030609@postgresql.org> <20071116163542.GL24718@crankycanuck.ca> In-Reply-To: <20071116163542.GL24718@crankycanuck.ca> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Greylist: Sender succeeded SMTP AUTH, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.0 (lists.commandprompt.com [207.173.203.159]); Fri, 16 Nov 2007 08:45:41 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: Maia Mailguard 1.0.1 X-Archive-Number: 200711/295 X-Sequence-Number: 13073 Andrew Sullivan wrote: > I'd prefer we not get into a flamewar over this, all, but I'm a little > concerned about this: > > On Fri, Nov 16, 2007 at 03:57:57PM +0000, Dave Page wrote: >> - The general Open Source community's annoyance at MySQL GPL'ing their >> drivers precisely because they want people to pay for the non-GPL licence. > > I think the complaint there is the dual licence stuff, and not the GPL as > such (at least, I'd hope so, since otherwise there'd be a similar objection > to the linux kernel licence, and there doesn't seem to be). I don't see on > the ODBCng pages any suggestion of a second licence. Is there? No. Joshua D. Drake > > A > From ajs@crankycanuck.ca Fri Nov 16 16:56:57 2007 Received: from localhost (unknown [200.46.204.187]) by postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 46E482E2D7D for ; Fri, 16 Nov 2007 12:56:57 -0400 (AST) Received: from postgresql.org ([200.46.204.71]) by localhost (mx1.hub.org [200.46.204.187]) (amavisd-maia, port 10024) with ESMTP id 46658-02 for ; Fri, 16 Nov 2007 12:56:49 -0400 (AST) Received: from main2.mycybernet.net (main2.mycybernet.net [209.222.63.140]) by postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5EA712E2D6B for ; Fri, 16 Nov 2007 12:56:49 -0400 (AST) Received: from 227-54-222-209.mycybernet.net ([209.222.54.227] helo=crankycanuck.ca) by main2.mycybernet.net with esmtp (Exim 4.62) (envelope-from ) id 1It4Uq-0004J2-TR for pgsql-www@postgresql.org; Fri, 16 Nov 2007 11:56:48 -0500 Received: by crankycanuck.ca (Postfix, from userid 1000) id A1E23504FD; Fri, 16 Nov 2007 11:56:43 -0500 (EST) Date: Fri, 16 Nov 2007 11:56:43 -0500 From: Andrew Sullivan To: pgsql-www@postgresql.org Subject: Re: change to interfaces.html Message-ID: <20071116165643.GO24718@crankycanuck.ca> References: <473C9D0A.1090409@hagander.net> <20071115112738.60c3a837@scratch> <9B276A8E7D64C7A3E5CFD1ED@ganymede.hub.org> <473D5A2A.9070904@postgresql.org> <473D6006.7080504@postgresql.org> <473DB9E9.3000006@commandprompt.com> <473DBE05.2030609@postgresql.org> <20071116163542.GL24718@crankycanuck.ca> <473DC879.8010003@postgresql.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <473DC879.8010003@postgresql.org> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.13 (2006-08-11) X-Virus-Scanned: Maia Mailguard 1.0.1 X-Archive-Number: 200711/297 X-Sequence-Number: 13075 On Fri, Nov 16, 2007 at 04:42:33PM +0000, Dave Page wrote: > No - I was pointing out that MySQL are an example of a company using the > uncertainty of how the GPL would or would not apply to an ODBC driver to > help them sell software. Perhaps in future we can all avoid dragging dual-licencing schemes into these sorts of discussions, then, since they're rather a different issue than GPL-vs-BSD arguments (which don't belong on -www anyway, ISTM). > I should make it clear that I do not believe that is JD/Command Prompt's > intention - JD has stated a number of times that they follow the more > liberal interpretation. So what exactly is this argument about, then? A -- Andrew Sullivan Old sigs will return after re-constitution of blue smoke From dpage@postgresql.org Fri Nov 16 17:14:02 2007 Received: from localhost (unknown [200.46.204.182]) by postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 10A0D2E2DD1 for ; Fri, 16 Nov 2007 13:14:02 -0400 (AST) Received: from postgresql.org ([200.46.204.71]) by localhost (mx1.hub.org [200.46.204.182]) (amavisd-maia, port 10024) with ESMTP id 67894-01 for ; Fri, 16 Nov 2007 13:13:55 -0400 (AST) Received: from developer.pgadmin.org (developer.pgadmin.org [63.246.23.140]) by postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B91702E2D6B for ; Fri, 16 Nov 2007 13:13:55 -0400 (AST) Received: from [172.16.0.68] ([78.146.29.189]) (authenticated bits=0) by developer.pgadmin.org (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id lAGHDnAg024247 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Fri, 16 Nov 2007 17:13:53 GMT Message-ID: <473DCFD0.3080900@postgresql.org> Date: Fri, 16 Nov 2007 17:13:52 +0000 From: Dave Page User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.9 (Windows/20071031) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Andrew Sullivan CC: pgsql-www@postgresql.org Subject: Re: change to interfaces.html References: <473C9D0A.1090409@hagander.net> <20071115112738.60c3a837@scratch> <9B276A8E7D64C7A3E5CFD1ED@ganymede.hub.org> <473D5A2A.9070904@postgresql.org> <473D6006.7080504@postgresql.org> <473DB9E9.3000006@commandprompt.com> <473DBE05.2030609@postgresql.org> <20071116163542.GL24718@crankycanuck.ca> <473DC879.8010003@postgresql.org> <20071116165643.GO24718@crankycanuck.ca> In-Reply-To: <20071116165643.GO24718@crankycanuck.ca> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: Maia Mailguard 1.0.1 X-Archive-Number: 200711/298 X-Sequence-Number: 13076 Andrew Sullivan wrote: >> I should make it clear that I do not believe that is JD/Command Prompt's >> intention - JD has stated a number of times that they follow the more >> liberal interpretation. > > So what exactly is this argument about, then? The reason why (imho) psqlODBC should be listed more prominently on the website than the CommandPrompt driver. Licencing came into it because I pointed out there is confusion over the appropriateness of the GPL for an ODBC driver due to the way the linking/runtime loading happens. /D From scrappy@hub.org Fri Nov 16 17:28:17 2007 Received: from localhost (unknown [200.46.204.187]) by postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 034EF2E2D99; Fri, 16 Nov 2007 13:28:17 -0400 (AST) Received: from postgresql.org ([200.46.204.71]) by localhost (mx1.hub.org [200.46.204.187]) (amavisd-maia, port 10024) with ESMTP id 55512-07; Fri, 16 Nov 2007 13:28:08 -0400 (AST) Received: from hub.org (hub.org [200.46.204.220]) by postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8D45E2E2D41; Fri, 16 Nov 2007 13:28:08 -0400 (AST) Received: from localhost (unknown [200.46.204.183]) by hub.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7F76811FE727; Fri, 16 Nov 2007 13:28:08 -0400 (AST) Received: from hub.org ([200.46.204.220]) by localhost (mx1.hub.org [200.46.204.183]) (amavisd-maia, port 10024) with ESMTP id 88304-01; Fri, 16 Nov 2007 13:28:04 -0400 (AST) Received: from fserv.hub.org (blk-7-245-234.eastlink.ca [71.7.245.234]) by hub.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 158C911FE724; Fri, 16 Nov 2007 13:28:04 -0400 (AST) Received: from [192.168.1.2] (unknown [192.168.1.2]) by fserv.hub.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2D17236676; Fri, 16 Nov 2007 13:28:04 -0400 (AST) Date: Fri, 16 Nov 2007 13:27:18 -0400 From: "Marc G. Fournier" To: "Joshua D. Drake" , Dave Page cc: Magnus Hagander , pgsql-www@postgresql.org Subject: Re: change to interfaces.html Message-ID: <502EEA30C7DC908999DB6218@ganymede.hub.org> In-Reply-To: <473DB9E9.3000006@commandprompt.com> References: <20071115105151.79ff8061@scratch> <473C9D0A.1090409@hagander.net> <20071115112738.60c3a837@scratch> <9B276A8E7D64C7A3E5CFD1ED@ganymede.hub.org> <473D5A2A.9070904@postgresql.org> <473D6006.7080504@postgresql.org> <473DB9E9.3000006@commandprompt.com> X-Mailer: Mulberry/4.0.8 (Linux/x86) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline X-Virus-Scanned: Maia Mailguard 1.0.1 X-Virus-Scanned: Maia Mailguard 1.0.1 X-Archive-Number: 200711/300 X-Sequence-Number: 13078 -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 - --On Friday, November 16, 2007 07:40:25 -0800 "Joshua D. Drake" wrote: > Uhmmm o.k. now I am ticked. Dave you are full of it on this one. The license > chosen is one the most trusted Open Source licenses in existed. It is the GPL > for god sake. Well, "most trusted" could be argued, especially with the recent incarnation :) But, it *is* a very restrictive license ... I would take a BSD licensed product over a GPL one, *but*, I don't believe that *that* should be criteria for ordering ... But, maybe the license for the driver should be included on that page, for those that do have a preference ... ODBCng (GPL) pgODBC (BSD) - ---- Marc G. Fournier Hub.Org Networking Services (http://www.hub.org) Email . scrappy@hub.org MSN . scrappy@hub.org Yahoo . yscrappy Skype: hub.org ICQ . 7615664 -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.4 (FreeBSD) iD8DBQFHPdL24QvfyHIvDvMRAhxgAKCpwv7Ho0gb2w+d3xS7i5SEL9Y8awCfUkDu Woaeq7XmHYWTxUAF6d0Eiu4= =ti1F -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From scrappy@hub.org Fri Nov 16 17:31:21 2007 Received: from localhost (unknown [200.46.204.183]) by postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9DF952E2DAE; Fri, 16 Nov 2007 13:31:21 -0400 (AST) Received: from postgresql.org ([200.46.204.71]) by localhost (mx1.hub.org [200.46.204.183]) (amavisd-maia, port 10024) with ESMTP id 96779-02; Fri, 16 Nov 2007 13:31:16 -0400 (AST) Received: from hub.org (hub.org [200.46.204.220]) by postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 519962E2D99; Fri, 16 Nov 2007 13:31:16 -0400 (AST) Received: from localhost (unknown [200.46.204.191]) by hub.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4E3A511FE6E7; Fri, 16 Nov 2007 13:31:16 -0400 (AST) Received: from hub.org ([200.46.204.220]) by localhost (mx1.hub.org [200.46.204.191]) (amavisd-maia, port 10024) with ESMTP id 75214-05; Fri, 16 Nov 2007 13:31:11 -0400 (AST) Received: from fserv.hub.org (blk-7-245-234.eastlink.ca [71.7.245.234]) by hub.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0E3D311FDD12; Fri, 16 Nov 2007 13:31:11 -0400 (AST) Received: from [192.168.1.2] (unknown [192.168.1.2]) by fserv.hub.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1ABF2366F2; Fri, 16 Nov 2007 13:31:11 -0400 (AST) Date: Fri, 16 Nov 2007 13:30:25 -0400 From: "Marc G. Fournier" To: Dave Page , "Joshua D. Drake" cc: Magnus Hagander , pgsql-www@postgresql.org Subject: Re: change to interfaces.html Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <473DBE05.2030609@postgresql.org> References: <20071115105151.79ff8061@scratch> <473C9D0A.1090409@hagander.net> <20071115112738.60c3a837@scratch> <9B276A8E7D64C7A3E5CFD1ED@ganymede.hub.org> <473D5A2A.9070904@postgresql.org> <473D6006.7080504@postgresql.org> <473DB9E9.3000006@commandprompt.com> <473DBE05.2030609@postgresql.org> X-Mailer: Mulberry/4.0.8 (Linux/x86) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline X-Virus-Scanned: Maia Mailguard 1.0.1 X-Virus-Scanned: Maia Mailguard 1.0.1 X-Archive-Number: 200711/301 X-Sequence-Number: 13079 -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 - --On Friday, November 16, 2007 15:57:57 +0000 Dave Page wrote: > - The general Open Source community's annoyance at MySQL GPL'ing their > drivers precisely because they want people to pay for the non-GPL licence. Isn't MySQLs Dual-Licensed, for that reason? I don't believe CMDs is Dual-Licensed, is it? Does CMD *have* a 'commercial version' of their ODBC driver that has more features? - ---- Marc G. Fournier Hub.Org Networking Services (http://www.hub.org) Email . scrappy@hub.org MSN . scrappy@hub.org Yahoo . yscrappy Skype: hub.org ICQ . 7615664 -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.4 (FreeBSD) iD8DBQFHPdOx4QvfyHIvDvMRAvdXAJ9VwdIL+RvxjqISeUAwQRJpiJkd/wCaAsDk Bo2XNsLmbJz2BybSFnfIW5g= =o5b9 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From scrappy@hub.org Fri Nov 16 17:38:21 2007 Received: from localhost (unknown [200.46.204.187]) by postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 62BDC2E2DBE; Fri, 16 Nov 2007 13:38:21 -0400 (AST) Received: from postgresql.org ([200.46.204.71]) by localhost (mx1.hub.org [200.46.204.187]) (amavisd-maia, port 10024) with ESMTP id 58560-05; Fri, 16 Nov 2007 13:38:12 -0400 (AST) Received: from hub.org (hub.org [200.46.204.220]) by postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0A9F62E2D99; Fri, 16 Nov 2007 13:38:13 -0400 (AST) Received: from localhost (unknown [200.46.204.184]) by hub.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0459C11FE728; Fri, 16 Nov 2007 13:38:13 -0400 (AST) Received: from hub.org ([200.46.204.220]) by localhost (mx1.hub.org [200.46.204.184]) (amavisd-maia, port 10024) with ESMTP id 00201-09; Fri, 16 Nov 2007 13:37:57 -0400 (AST) Received: from fserv.hub.org (blk-7-245-234.eastlink.ca [71.7.245.234]) by hub.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5203F11FE725; Fri, 16 Nov 2007 13:38:07 -0400 (AST) Received: from [192.168.1.2] (unknown [192.168.1.2]) by fserv.hub.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7F74036717; Fri, 16 Nov 2007 13:38:07 -0400 (AST) Date: Fri, 16 Nov 2007 13:37:21 -0400 From: "Marc G. Fournier" To: "Joshua D. Drake" , Magnus Hagander cc: Dave Page , pgsql-www@postgresql.org Subject: Re: change to interfaces.html Message-ID: <44691962FD70C21215BA5001@ganymede.hub.org> In-Reply-To: <473DBF28.2080903@commandprompt.com> References: <20071115105151.79ff8061@scratch> <473C9D0A.1090409@hagander.net> <20071115112738.60c3a837@scratch> <9B276A8E7D64C7A3E5CFD1ED@ganymede.hub.org> <473D5A2A.9070904@postgresql.org> <473D6006.7080504@postgresql.org> <473DB9E9.3000006@commandprompt.com> <473DBC91.3000409@hagander.net> <473DBF28.2080903@commandprompt.com> X-Mailer: Mulberry/4.0.8 (Linux/x86) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline X-Virus-Scanned: Maia Mailguard 1.0.1 X-Virus-Scanned: Maia Mailguard 1.0.1 X-Archive-Number: 200711/302 X-Sequence-Number: 13080 -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 - --On Friday, November 16, 2007 08:02:48 -0800 "Joshua D. Drake" wrote: >> more peoples requirements. ODBCng doesn't support advanced >> authentication methods. > > That is correct, we only support the ones most people use. 'k, now you are losing me on the argument ... >> It doesn't support versions < 8.0. Last I > > That is also correct but I hardly consider whether or not we support ungodly > old versions of PostgreSQL relevant. ... as does this one, considering we officially support v7.3 and newer, the ODBC driver we push should reflect that ... > Just because a company does the primary development that does not mean it is > not community code. Command Prompt is "core" on the ODBCng project. Nothing > more. These arguments I do agree with ... maybe some sort of 'feature matrix' is needed where we're dealing with multiple versions ... have an ODBC.html page and allow other 'versions' of ODBC include their products, commercial and open source ... 'k, let me ask though ... why would i use ODBCng over pgODBC? From your own words, the code is a mess (just like pgODBC), it doesn't support advanced auth methods (which ones aren't supported?) and doesn't support older versions of Pg (I have several clients still using 7.2, actually, for older OpenACS sites, and *alot* using 7.4) ... - ---- Marc G. Fournier Hub.Org Networking Services (http://www.hub.org) Email . scrappy@hub.org MSN . scrappy@hub.org Yahoo . yscrappy Skype: hub.org ICQ . 7615664 -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.4 (FreeBSD) iD8DBQFHPdVR4QvfyHIvDvMRAvjnAKCAKiXN81SLRPlGEEsGQ2uXelnY1ACffLkm XPDfQu0vO9iTKxMPq0GHYKY= =3wH2 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From dpage@postgresql.org Fri Nov 16 17:39:41 2007 Received: from localhost (unknown [200.46.204.182]) by postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B97292E2F01 for ; Fri, 16 Nov 2007 13:39:41 -0400 (AST) Received: from postgresql.org ([200.46.204.71]) by localhost (mx1.hub.org [200.46.204.182]) (amavisd-maia, port 10024) with ESMTP id 80415-06 for ; Fri, 16 Nov 2007 13:39:37 -0400 (AST) Received: from developer.pgadmin.org (developer.pgadmin.org [63.246.23.140]) by postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7410E2E2EEB for ; Fri, 16 Nov 2007 13:39:38 -0400 (AST) Received: from [172.16.0.68] ([78.146.29.189]) (authenticated bits=0) by developer.pgadmin.org (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id lAGHdVXv024902 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Fri, 16 Nov 2007 17:39:33 GMT Message-ID: <473DD5D7.4020206@postgresql.org> Date: Fri, 16 Nov 2007 17:39:35 +0000 From: Dave Page User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.9 (Windows/20071031) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Marc G. Fournier" CC: "Joshua D. Drake" , Magnus Hagander , pgsql-www@postgresql.org Subject: Re: change to interfaces.html References: <20071115105151.79ff8061@scratch> <473C9D0A.1090409@hagander.net> <20071115112738.60c3a837@scratch> <9B276A8E7D64C7A3E5CFD1ED@ganymede.hub.org> <473D5A2A.9070904@postgresql.org> <473D6006.7080504@postgresql.org> <473DB9E9.3000006@commandprompt.com> <473DBE05.2030609@postgresql.org> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: Maia Mailguard 1.0.1 X-Archive-Number: 200711/303 X-Sequence-Number: 13081 Marc G. Fournier wrote: > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > Hash: SHA1 > > > > - --On Friday, November 16, 2007 15:57:57 +0000 Dave Page > wrote: > >> - The general Open Source community's annoyance at MySQL GPL'ing their >> drivers precisely because they want people to pay for the non-GPL licence. > > Isn't MySQLs Dual-Licensed, for that reason? I don't believe CMDs is > Dual-Licensed, is it? Does CMD *have* a 'commercial version' of their ODBC > driver that has more features? No, and I didn't mean to imply it does. I believe CP are at the other end of the scale from MySQL - MySQL are taking the restrictive stance, whilst CP are taking the liberal stance. It's the fact that the licence allows those different interpretations that I believe is a serious problem. /D From jd@commandprompt.com Fri Nov 16 17:44:03 2007 Received: from localhost (unknown [200.46.204.183]) by postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 432E42E2DB3; Fri, 16 Nov 2007 13:44:03 -0400 (AST) Received: from postgresql.org ([200.46.204.71]) by localhost (mx1.hub.org [200.46.204.183]) (amavisd-maia, port 10024) with ESMTP id 03959-10; Fri, 16 Nov 2007 13:43:54 -0400 (AST) Received: from lists.commandprompt.com (host-159.commandprompt.net [207.173.203.159]) by postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8510C2E2DA3; Fri, 16 Nov 2007 13:43:54 -0400 (AST) Received: from localhost (or-69-34-217-90.sta.embarqhsd.net [69.34.217.90]) (authenticated bits=0) by lists.commandprompt.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id lAGHhmIx019900 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Fri, 16 Nov 2007 09:43:49 -0800 Date: Fri, 16 Nov 2007 09:43:42 -0800 From: "Joshua D. Drake" To: "Marc G. Fournier" Cc: Dave Page , Magnus Hagander , pgsql-www@postgresql.org Subject: Re: change to interfaces.html Message-ID: <20071116094342.0c0781a7@commandprompt.com> In-Reply-To: References: <20071115105151.79ff8061@scratch> <473C9D0A.1090409@hagander.net> <20071115112738.60c3a837@scratch> <9B276A8E7D64C7A3E5CFD1ED@ganymede.hub.org> <473D5A2A.9070904@postgresql.org> <473D6006.7080504@postgresql.org> <473DB9E9.3000006@commandprompt.com> <473DBE05.2030609@postgresql.org> Organization: Command Prompt, Inc. X-Mailer: Claws Mail 3.0.2 (GTK+ 2.12.0; x86_64-pc-linux-gnu) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 X-Greylist: Sender succeeded SMTP AUTH, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.0 (lists.commandprompt.com [207.173.203.159]); Fri, 16 Nov 2007 09:43:49 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: Maia Mailguard 1.0.1 X-Archive-Number: 200711/304 X-Sequence-Number: 13082 LS0tLS1CRUdJTiBQR1AgU0lHTkVEIE1FU1NBR0UtLS0tLQ0KSGFzaDogU0hBMQ0KDQpPbiBGcmks IDE2IE5vdiAyMDA3IDEzOjMwOjI1IC0wNDAwDQoiTWFyYyBHLiBGb3VybmllciIgPHNjcmFwcHlA aHViLm9yZz4gd3JvdGU6DQoNCj4gLS0tLS1CRUdJTiBQR1AgU0lHTkVEIE1FU1NBR0UtLS0tLQ0K PiBIYXNoOiBTSEExDQo+IA0KPiANCj4gDQo+IC0gLS1PbiBGcmlkYXksIE5vdmVtYmVyIDE2LCAy MDA3IDE1OjU3OjU3ICswMDAwIERhdmUgUGFnZQ0KPiA8ZHBhZ2VAcG9zdGdyZXNxbC5vcmc+IHdy b3RlOg0KPiANCj4gPiAtIFRoZSBnZW5lcmFsIE9wZW4gU291cmNlIGNvbW11bml0eSdzIGFubm95 YW5jZSBhdCBNeVNRTCBHUEwnaW5nDQo+ID4gdGhlaXIgZHJpdmVycyBwcmVjaXNlbHkgYmVjYXVz ZSB0aGV5IHdhbnQgcGVvcGxlIHRvIHBheSBmb3IgdGhlDQo+ID4gbm9uLUdQTCBsaWNlbmNlLg0K PiANCj4gSXNuJ3QgTXlTUUxzIER1YWwtTGljZW5zZWQsIGZvciB0aGF0IHJlYXNvbj8gIEkgZG9u J3QgYmVsaWV2ZSBDTURzIGlzIA0KPiBEdWFsLUxpY2Vuc2VkLCBpcyBpdD8gIERvZXMgQ01EICpo YXZlKiBhICdjb21tZXJjaWFsIHZlcnNpb24nIG9mDQo+IHRoZWlyIE9EQkMgZHJpdmVyIHRoYXQg aGFzIG1vcmUgZmVhdHVyZXM/DQoNCkRpcmVjdGx5IGZyb20gdGhlIHdlYnNpdGU6DQoNCiAgICAq IE9EQkNuZyBpcyBhIHdyaXR0ZW4gZnJvbSBzY3JhdGNoIE9EQkMgZHJpdmVyIGZvciBQb3N0Z3Jl U1FMIDgueCsuDQpXZSB3aWxsIG5vdCBiZSBzdXBwb3J0aW5nIHRoZSA3LnggdmVyc2lvbiBvZiBQ b3N0Z3JlU1FMLiANCg0KICAgICogT0RCQ25nIGlzIGEgd2lyZS1sZXZlbCBPREJDIGRyaXZlciBt ZWFuaW5nIHRoYXQgd2UgZG8gbm90IHJlcXVpcmUNCmxpYnBxIG9yIGFueSBQb3N0Z3JlU1FMIGxp YnJhcmllcyBiZSBpbnN0YWxsZWQgdG8gZnVuY3Rpb24uIA0KDQogICAgKiBPREJDbmcgaXMgY29t bWVyY2lhbGx5IHN1cHBvcnRlZCBieSBUaGUgUG9zdGdyZVNRTCBDb21wYW55LA0KQ29tbWFuZCBQ cm9tcHQsIEluYy4sIEFsdGhvdWdoIHdlIGludml0ZSBjb21tdW5pdHkgbWVtYmVycyB0byBkbyB0 aGUNCnNhbWUuIA0KDQogICAgKiBPREJDbmcgaXMgbGljZW5zZWQgdW5kZXIgdGhlIEdQTC4gV2Ug ZG8gbm90IHNlbGwgb25lIG9mZg0KcHJvcHJpZXRhcnkgbGljZW5zZXMuIA0KDQogICAgKiBJZiB5 b3Ugd291bGQgbGlrZSB0byBjb250cmlidXRlIHBsZWFzZSBqb2luIHRoZSBwdWJsaWMgbWFpbGlu Zw0KbGlzdHMgaGVyZTogaHR0cDovL2xpc3RzLmNvbW1hbmRwcm9tcHQuY29tL21haWxtYW4vbGlz dGluZm8vb2RiY25nIC4NClRoaXMgbGlzdCBpcyBhIGxvdyB2b2x1bWUgbGlzdCBidXQgY2FuIGJl IHVzZWQgZm9yIHRlY2huaWNhbA0KZGlzY3Vzc2lvbiwgcGF0Y2ggc3VibWlzc2lvbiwgYW5kIGdl bmVyYWwgaGVscC4gDQoNCiAgICAqIFNvdXJjZXMgYXJlIGhlcmUgKGFub255bW91cyBzdm4pOg0K aHR0cDovL3Byb2plY3RzLmNvbW1hbmRwcm9tcHQuY29tL3B1YmxpYy9vZGJjbmcvcmVwbyANCg0K ICAgICogV2UgYXJlIG5vdyBpbiBwdWJsaWMgdGVzdCBtb2RlIGZvciB0aGUgV2luMzIgYW5kIExp bnV4IHZlcnNpb25zDQp0byByZXNvbHZlIGFzIG1hbnkgYnVncyBhcyBwb3NzaWJsZS4gDQoNCg0K PiANCj4gDQo+IC0gLS0tLQ0KPiBNYXJjIEcuIEZvdXJuaWVyICAgICAgICAgICBIdWIuT3JnIE5l dHdvcmtpbmcgU2VydmljZXMNCj4gKGh0dHA6Ly93d3cuaHViLm9yZykgRW1haWwgLg0KPiBzY3Jh cHB5QGh1Yi5vcmcgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICBNU04gLiBzY3JhcHB5QGh1 Yi5vcmcNCj4gWWFob28gLiB5c2NyYXBweSAgICAgICAgICAgICAgIFNreXBlOiBodWIub3JnICAg ICAgICBJQ1EgLiA3NjE1NjY0DQo+IC0tLS0tQkVHSU4gUEdQIFNJR05BVFVSRS0tLS0tIFZlcnNp b246IEdudVBHIHYyLjAuNCAoRnJlZUJTRCkNCj4gDQo+IGlEOERCUUZIUGRPeDRRdmZ5SEl2RHZN UkF2ZFhBSjlWd2RJTCtSdnhqcUlTZVVBd1FSSnBpSmtkL3dDYUFzRGsNCj4gQm8yWE5zTG1iSnoy QnliU0ZuZklXNWc9DQo+ID1vNWI5DQo+IC0tLS0tRU5EIFBHUCBTSUdOQVRVUkUtLS0tLQ0KPiAN Cj4gDQo+IC0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLShlbmQgb2YNCj4gYnJvYWRjYXN0KS0t LS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLSBUSVAgMzogSGF2ZSB5b3UgY2hlY2tlZCBvdXINCj4g ZXh0ZW5zaXZlIEZBUT8NCj4gDQo+ICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgIGh0dHA6Ly93d3cucG9zdGdyZXNx bC5vcmcvZG9jcy9mYXENCj4gDQoNCg0KLSAtLSANCg0KICAgICAgPT09IFRoZSBQb3N0Z3JlU1FM IENvbXBhbnk6IENvbW1hbmQgUHJvbXB0LCBJbmMuID09PQ0KU2FsZXMvU3VwcG9ydDogKzEuNTAz LjY2Ny40NTY0ICAgMjR4Ny9FbWVyZ2VuY3k6ICsxLjgwMC40OTIuMjI0MA0KUG9zdGdyZVNRTCBz b2x1dGlvbnMgc2luY2UgMTk5NyAgaHR0cDovL3d3dy5jb21tYW5kcHJvbXB0LmNvbS8NCgkJCVVO SVFVRSBOT1QgTlVMTA0KRG9uYXRlIHRvIHRoZSBQb3N0Z3JlU1FMIFByb2plY3Q6IGh0dHA6Ly93 d3cucG9zdGdyZXNxbC5vcmcvYWJvdXQvZG9uYXRlDQpQb3N0Z3JlU1FMIFJlcGxpY2F0aW9uOiBo dHRwOi8vd3d3LmNvbW1hbmRwcm9tcHQuY29tL3Byb2R1Y3RzLw0KDQotLS0tLUJFR0lOIFBHUCBT SUdOQVRVUkUtLS0tLQ0KVmVyc2lvbjogR251UEcgdjEuNC42IChHTlUvTGludXgpDQoNCmlEOERC UUZIUGRiVUFUYi96cWZaVVVRUkFvY2tBS0NjbWVBSmhFYklCWkVBWkU1WFR1NjFGakMrNXdDZllj eGUNCnBpV3dPaHlZWHFZZi9xS2N1cGszdHBrPQ0KPVEzaG4NCi0tLS0tRU5EIFBHUCBTSUdOQVRV UkUtLS0tLQ0K From scrappy@hub.org Fri Nov 16 17:51:35 2007 Received: from localhost (unknown [200.46.204.191]) by postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 263EB2E2368; Fri, 16 Nov 2007 13:51:35 -0400 (AST) Received: from postgresql.org ([200.46.204.71]) by localhost (mx1.hub.org [200.46.204.191]) (amavisd-maia, port 10024) with ESMTP id 90489-01; Fri, 16 Nov 2007 13:51:21 -0400 (AST) Received: from hub.org (hub.org [200.46.204.220]) by postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AF91E2E2D80; Fri, 16 Nov 2007 13:51:21 -0400 (AST) Received: from localhost (unknown [200.46.204.183]) by hub.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A6BBE11FE725; Fri, 16 Nov 2007 13:51:21 -0400 (AST) Received: from hub.org ([200.46.204.220]) by localhost (mx1.hub.org [200.46.204.183]) (amavisd-maia, port 10024) with ESMTP id 72783-08; Fri, 16 Nov 2007 13:51:17 -0400 (AST) Received: from fserv.hub.org (blk-7-245-234.eastlink.ca [71.7.245.234]) by hub.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7523A11FE727; Fri, 16 Nov 2007 13:51:17 -0400 (AST) Received: from [192.168.1.2] (unknown [192.168.1.2]) by fserv.hub.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BCB8036740; Fri, 16 Nov 2007 13:51:17 -0400 (AST) Date: Fri, 16 Nov 2007 13:50:32 -0400 From: "Marc G. Fournier" To: Dave Page cc: "Joshua D. Drake" , Magnus Hagander , pgsql-www@postgresql.org Subject: Re: change to interfaces.html Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <473DD5D7.4020206@postgresql.org> References: <20071115105151.79ff8061@scratch> <473C9D0A.1090409@hagander.net> <20071115112738.60c3a837@scratch> <9B276A8E7D64C7A3E5CFD1ED@ganymede.hub.org> <473D5A2A.9070904@postgresql.org> <473D6006.7080504@postgresql.org> <473DB9E9.3000006@commandprompt.com> <473DBE05.2030609@postgresql.org> <473DD5D7.4020206@postgresql.org> X-Mailer: Mulberry/4.0.8 (Linux/x86) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline X-Virus-Scanned: Maia Mailguard 1.0.1 X-Virus-Scanned: Maia Mailguard 1.0.1 X-Archive-Number: 200711/307 X-Sequence-Number: 13085 -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 - --On Friday, November 16, 2007 17:39:35 +0000 Dave Page wrote: > Marc G. Fournier wrote: >> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- >> Hash: SHA1 >> >> >> >> - --On Friday, November 16, 2007 15:57:57 +0000 Dave Page >> wrote: >> >>> - The general Open Source community's annoyance at MySQL GPL'ing their >>> drivers precisely because they want people to pay for the non-GPL licence. >> >> Isn't MySQLs Dual-Licensed, for that reason? I don't believe CMDs is >> Dual-Licensed, is it? Does CMD *have* a 'commercial version' of their ODBC >> driver that has more features? > > No, and I didn't mean to imply it does. I believe CP are at the other end of > the scale from MySQL - MySQL are taking the restrictive stance, whilst CP are > taking the liberal stance. > > It's the fact that the licence allows those different interpretations that I > believe is a serious problem. Then the different licence schemes choosen for the product should be listed on the page, so that ppl can choose, but the product should still be alphabetically ordered .. just because *you* (and I) would choose a BSD licensed product over a GPL licensed one, it shouldn't be up to us to force that on others ... - ---- Marc G. Fournier Hub.Org Networking Services (http://www.hub.org) Email . scrappy@hub.org MSN . scrappy@hub.org Yahoo . yscrappy Skype: hub.org ICQ . 7615664 -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.4 (FreeBSD) iD8DBQFHPdho4QvfyHIvDvMRAgtvAKCEWistVneQj+Z+h9zT73/XIL6bnACfYXVN XuSHRfwq8Xk+ActYRjn+Ieg= =JuGs -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From jd@commandprompt.com Fri Nov 16 17:54:37 2007 Received: from localhost (unknown [200.46.204.184]) by postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A308A2E2DBE; Fri, 16 Nov 2007 13:54:37 -0400 (AST) Received: from postgresql.org ([200.46.204.71]) by localhost (mx1.hub.org [200.46.204.184]) (amavisd-maia, port 10024) with ESMTP id 30834-05; Fri, 16 Nov 2007 13:54:19 -0400 (AST) Received: from lists.commandprompt.com (host-159.commandprompt.net [207.173.203.159]) by postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AD0AD2E2D3E; Fri, 16 Nov 2007 13:54:29 -0400 (AST) Received: from localhost (or-69-34-217-90.sta.embarqhsd.net [69.34.217.90]) (authenticated bits=0) by lists.commandprompt.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id lAGHsO1n020228 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Fri, 16 Nov 2007 09:54:24 -0800 Date: Fri, 16 Nov 2007 09:54:23 -0800 From: "Joshua D. Drake" To: "Marc G. Fournier" Cc: Magnus Hagander , Dave Page , pgsql-www@postgresql.org Subject: Re: change to interfaces.html Message-ID: <20071116095423.7fcfbbab@commandprompt.com> In-Reply-To: <44691962FD70C21215BA5001@ganymede.hub.org> References: <20071115105151.79ff8061@scratch> <473C9D0A.1090409@hagander.net> <20071115112738.60c3a837@scratch> <9B276A8E7D64C7A3E5CFD1ED@ganymede.hub.org> <473D5A2A.9070904@postgresql.org> <473D6006.7080504@postgresql.org> <473DB9E9.3000006@commandprompt.com> <473DBC91.3000409@hagander.net> <473DBF28.2080903@commandprompt.com> <44691962FD70C21215BA5001@ganymede.hub.org> Organization: Command Prompt, Inc. X-Mailer: Claws Mail 3.0.2 (GTK+ 2.12.0; x86_64-pc-linux-gnu) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 X-Greylist: Sender succeeded SMTP AUTH, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.0 (lists.commandprompt.com [207.173.203.159]); Fri, 16 Nov 2007 09:54:25 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: Maia Mailguard 1.0.1 X-Archive-Number: 200711/308 X-Sequence-Number: 13086 LS0tLS1CRUdJTiBQR1AgU0lHTkVEIE1FU1NBR0UtLS0tLQ0KSGFzaDogU0hBMQ0KDQpPbiBGcmks IDE2IE5vdiAyMDA3IDEzOjM3OjIxIC0wNDAwDQoiTWFyYyBHLiBGb3VybmllciIgPHNjcmFwcHlA aHViLm9yZz4gd3JvdGU6DQoNCj4gPiBKdXN0IGJlY2F1c2UgYSBjb21wYW55IGRvZXMgdGhlIHBy aW1hcnkgZGV2ZWxvcG1lbnQgdGhhdCBkb2VzIG5vdA0KPiA+IG1lYW4gaXQgaXMgbm90IGNvbW11 bml0eSBjb2RlLiBDb21tYW5kIFByb21wdCBpcyAiY29yZSIgb24gdGhlDQo+ID4gT0RCQ25nIHBy b2plY3QuIE5vdGhpbmcgbW9yZS4NCj4gDQo+IFRoZXNlIGFyZ3VtZW50cyBJIGRvIGFncmVlIHdp dGggLi4uIG1heWJlIHNvbWUgc29ydCBvZiAnZmVhdHVyZQ0KPiBtYXRyaXgnIGlzIG5lZWRlZCB3 aGVyZSB3ZSdyZSBkZWFsaW5nIHdpdGggbXVsdGlwbGUgdmVyc2lvbnMgLi4uIGhhdmUNCj4gYW4g T0RCQy5odG1sIHBhZ2UgYW5kIGFsbG93IG90aGVyICd2ZXJzaW9ucycgb2YgT0RCQyBpbmNsdWRl IHRoZWlyDQo+IHByb2R1Y3RzLCBjb21tZXJjaWFsIGFuZCBvcGVuIHNvdXJjZSAuLi4NCg0KVG8g YmUgY2xlYXIgKGFnYWluKS4NCg0KSSBkbyBub3QgY2FyZSB0aGF0IE9EQkNuZyBpcyBwbGFjZWQg dW5kZXIgcHNxbE9EQkMuIEkgZG8gYWdyZWUgd2l0aA0KTWFyYydzIGFyZ3VtZW50IHRoYXQgQWxw aGFiZXRpY2FsIHdvdWxkIGJlIGJldHRlciwgYnV0IEkgcmVhbGx5IGRvbid0DQpjYXJlIG90aGVy IHRoYW4gdGhhdC4NCg0KV2hhdCBJIGRvIGNhcmUgYWJvdXQgaXMgdGhlIGFyZ3VtZW50IGFib3Zl LiBPREJDbmcgImlzIiBhIGNvbW11bml0eQ0KcHJvamVjdC4gV2hhdCBzZXQgbWUgb2ZmLCBhbmQg d2hhdCBjb250aW51ZXMgdG8gcmFpc2UgbXkgaXJlIGlzIHRoZQ0Kb2J2aW91cyBiaWFzLCBpZ25v cmFuY2UgYW5kIGJpZ290cnkgYWdhaW5zdCBhbiBPcGVuIFNvdXJjZSBwcm9qZWN0IHRoYXQNCmlz IGEgY29tbXVuaXR5IHByb2plY3QsIGp1c3QgYmVjYXVzZSBhIGNvbXBhbnksIHdoaWNoIGhhcHBl bnMgdG8gYmUgb25lDQpvZiB0aGUgbW9zdCBwcmV2YWxlbnQgc3VwcG9ydGVycyBvZiB0aGUgUG9z dGdyZVNRTCBjb21tdW5pdHkgaXMgdGhlDQpwcmltYXJ5IGRldmVsb3Blci4NCg0KU2luY2VyZWx5 LA0KDQpKb3NodWEgRC4gRHJha2UNCg0KLSAtLSANCg0KICAgICAgPT09IFRoZSBQb3N0Z3JlU1FM IENvbXBhbnk6IENvbW1hbmQgUHJvbXB0LCBJbmMuID09PQ0KU2FsZXMvU3VwcG9ydDogKzEuNTAz LjY2Ny40NTY0ICAgMjR4Ny9FbWVyZ2VuY3k6ICsxLjgwMC40OTIuMjI0MA0KUG9zdGdyZVNRTCBz b2x1dGlvbnMgc2luY2UgMTk5NyAgaHR0cDovL3d3dy5jb21tYW5kcHJvbXB0LmNvbS8NCgkJCVVO SVFVRSBOT1QgTlVMTA0KRG9uYXRlIHRvIHRoZSBQb3N0Z3JlU1FMIFByb2plY3Q6IGh0dHA6Ly93 d3cucG9zdGdyZXNxbC5vcmcvYWJvdXQvZG9uYXRlDQpQb3N0Z3JlU1FMIFJlcGxpY2F0aW9uOiBo dHRwOi8vd3d3LmNvbW1hbmRwcm9tcHQuY29tL3Byb2R1Y3RzLw0KDQotLS0tLUJFR0lOIFBHUCBT SUdOQVRVUkUtLS0tLQ0KVmVyc2lvbjogR251UEcgdjEuNC42IChHTlUvTGludXgpDQoNCmlEOERC UUZIUGRsUEFUYi96cWZaVVVRUkFsdnhBSjl2S0d5OWdORmpCTEIreG5MRTJiMTlpWENybFFDZU53 ZysNCnBNZW11QUVKMm9TTHl2SUFPWGVLdDFnPQ0KPXNubTQNCi0tLS0tRU5EIFBHUCBTSUdOQVRV UkUtLS0tLQ0K From bruce@momjian.us Sat Nov 17 03:09:25 2007 Received: from localhost (unknown [200.46.204.191]) by postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id ED1AC2E2D87; Fri, 16 Nov 2007 23:09:25 -0400 (AST) Received: from postgresql.org ([200.46.204.71]) by localhost (mx1.hub.org [200.46.204.191]) (amavisd-maia, port 10024) with ESMTP id 84883-02; Fri, 16 Nov 2007 23:09:20 -0400 (AST) Received: from momjian.us (momjian.us [70.90.9.53]) by postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8043E2E2DC8; Fri, 16 Nov 2007 23:07:59 -0400 (AST) Received: (from bruce@localhost) by momjian.us (8.11.6/8.11.6) id lAH37ux15661; Fri, 16 Nov 2007 22:07:56 -0500 (EST) From: Bruce Momjian Message-Id: <200711170307.lAH37ux15661@momjian.us> Subject: Re: [pgsql-www] change to interfaces.html In-Reply-To: <20071116095423.7fcfbbab@commandprompt.com> To: "Joshua D. Drake" Date: Fri, 16 Nov 2007 22:07:56 -0500 (EST) CC: "Marc G. Fournier" , Magnus Hagander , Dave Page , PostgreSQL-interfaces X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL124 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" X-Virus-Scanned: Maia Mailguard 1.0.1 X-Archive-Number: 200711/11 X-Sequence-Number: 6655 [ Discussion moved to "interfaces" list.] I think the unspoken complaint is why you would license an ODBC driver as GPL rather than LGPL, especially if you are not trying to enforce a burden on linked software. Frankly I thought the LGPL was the GPL without the linking clause, so why use the GPL in that case? Of course, you can license it however you want, but my bet is that is the underlying complaint, and the fact that ODBCng is kind of a fork of the psqlODBC driver that can't really be used because of the GPL, no matter how much you say there is no link/source burden. It feels like a GPL splinter project, kind of like taking the Postgres backend code and trying to release a GPL version (which you also could do, but community members aren't going to be thrilled about it). --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Joshua D. Drake wrote: > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > Hash: SHA1 > > On Fri, 16 Nov 2007 13:37:21 -0400 > "Marc G. Fournier" wrote: > > > > Just because a company does the primary development that does not > > > mean it is not community code. Command Prompt is "core" on the > > > ODBCng project. Nothing more. > > > > These arguments I do agree with ... maybe some sort of 'feature > > matrix' is needed where we're dealing with multiple versions ... have > > an ODBC.html page and allow other 'versions' of ODBC include their > > products, commercial and open source ... > > To be clear (again). > > I do not care that ODBCng is placed under psqlODBC. I do agree with > Marc's argument that Alphabetical would be better, but I really don't > care other than that. > > What I do care about is the argument above. ODBCng "is" a community > project. What set me off, and what continues to raise my ire is the > obvious bias, ignorance and bigotry against an Open Source project that > is a community project, just because a company, which happens to be one > of the most prevalent supporters of the PostgreSQL community is the > primary developer. > > Sincerely, > > Joshua D. Drake > > - -- > > === The PostgreSQL Company: Command Prompt, Inc. === > Sales/Support: +1.503.667.4564 24x7/Emergency: +1.800.492.2240 > PostgreSQL solutions since 1997 http://www.commandprompt.com/ > UNIQUE NOT NULL > Donate to the PostgreSQL Project: http://www.postgresql.org/about/donate > PostgreSQL Replication: http://www.commandprompt.com/products/ > > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- > Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux) > > iD8DBQFHPdlPATb/zqfZUUQRAlvxAJ9vKGy9gNFjBLB+xnLE2b19iXCrlQCeNwg+ > pMemuAEJ2oSLyvIAOXeKt1g= > =snm4 > -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- > > ---------------------------(end of broadcast)--------------------------- > TIP 6: explain analyze is your friend -- Bruce Momjian http://momjian.us EnterpriseDB http://postgres.enterprisedb.com + If your life is a hard drive, Christ can be your backup. + From jd@commandprompt.com Sat Nov 17 03:20:51 2007 Received: from localhost (unknown [200.46.204.184]) by postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 30C132E2D3B; Fri, 16 Nov 2007 23:20:51 -0400 (AST) Received: from postgresql.org ([200.46.204.71]) by localhost (mx1.hub.org [200.46.204.184]) (amavisd-maia, port 10024) with ESMTP id 73869-05; Fri, 16 Nov 2007 23:20:29 -0400 (AST) Received: from lists.commandprompt.com (host-159.commandprompt.net [207.173.203.159]) by postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 83D352E2DD1; Fri, 16 Nov 2007 23:20:46 -0400 (AST) Received: from localhost (or-69-34-217-90.sta.embarqhsd.net [69.34.217.90]) (authenticated bits=0) by lists.commandprompt.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id lAH3KVMf004395 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Fri, 16 Nov 2007 19:20:32 -0800 Date: Fri, 16 Nov 2007 19:20:30 -0800 From: "Joshua D. Drake" To: Bruce Momjian Cc: "Marc G. Fournier" , Magnus Hagander , Dave Page , PostgreSQL-interfaces Subject: Re: [pgsql-www] change to interfaces.html Message-ID: <20071116192030.421d7959@commandprompt.com> In-Reply-To: <200711170307.lAH37ux15661@momjian.us> References: <20071116095423.7fcfbbab@commandprompt.com> <200711170307.lAH37ux15661@momjian.us> Organization: Command Prompt, Inc. X-Mailer: Claws Mail 3.0.2 (GTK+ 2.12.0; x86_64-pc-linux-gnu) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 X-Greylist: Sender succeeded SMTP AUTH, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.0 (lists.commandprompt.com [207.173.203.159]); Fri, 16 Nov 2007 19:20:32 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: Maia Mailguard 1.0.1 X-Archive-Number: 200711/12 X-Sequence-Number: 6656 LS0tLS1CRUdJTiBQR1AgU0lHTkVEIE1FU1NBR0UtLS0tLQ0KSGFzaDogU0hBMQ0KDQpPbiBGcmks IDE2IE5vdiAyMDA3IDIyOjA3OjU2IC0wNTAwIChFU1QpDQpCcnVjZSBNb21qaWFuIDxicnVjZUBt b21qaWFuLnVzPiB3cm90ZToNCg0KPiANCj4gWyBEaXNjdXNzaW9uIG1vdmVkIHRvICJpbnRlcmZh Y2VzIiBsaXN0Ll0NCj4gDQo+IEkgdGhpbmsgdGhlIHVuc3Bva2VuIGNvbXBsYWludCBpcyB3aHkg eW91IHdvdWxkIGxpY2Vuc2UgYW4gT0RCQyBkcml2ZXINCj4gYXMgR1BMIHJhdGhlciB0aGFuIExH UEwsIGVzcGVjaWFsbHkgaWYgeW91IGFyZSBub3QgdHJ5aW5nIHRvIGVuZm9yY2UgYQ0KPiBidXJk ZW4gb24gbGlua2VkIHNvZnR3YXJlLiAgRnJhbmtseSBJIHRob3VnaHQgdGhlIExHUEwgd2FzIHRo ZSBHUEwNCj4gd2l0aG91dCB0aGUgbGlua2luZyBjbGF1c2UsIHNvIHdoeSB1c2UgdGhlIEdQTCBp biB0aGF0IGNhc2UNCg0KRXhhY3RseSB3aHkgZG9lcyBpdCBtYXR0ZXIgdG8geW91IGhvdyB3ZSBs aWNlbnNlIG91ciBzb2Z0d2FyZT8gVGhlIG9ubHkNCnRoaW5nIHRoYXQgbWF0dGVycyBpcyB0aGF0 IGl0IGlzIG9wZW4gc291cmNlLiBUaGF0J3MgaXQuIE5vdGhpbmcgbW9yZS4NCg0KDQo+IA0KPiBP ZiBjb3Vyc2UsIHlvdSBjYW4gbGljZW5zZSBpdCBob3dldmVyIHlvdSB3YW50LCBidXQgbXkgYmV0 IGlzIHRoYXQgaXMNCj4gdGhlIHVuZGVybHlpbmcgY29tcGxhaW50LCBhbmQgdGhlIGZhY3QgdGhh dCBPREJDbmcgaXMga2luZCBvZiBhIGZvcmsNCj4gb2YgdGhlIHBzcWxPREJDIGRyaXZlciB0aGF0 IGNhbid0IHJlYWxseSBiZSB1c2VkIGJlY2F1c2Ugb2YgdGhlIEdQTCwNCg0KVGhlIE9EQkNuZyBk cml2ZXIgaXMgKm5vdCogYSBmb3JrIGluIGFueSB3YXkgc2hhcGUgb3IgZm9ybSBvZiB0aGUNCnBz cWxPREJDIGRyaXZlci4NCg0KPiBubyBtYXR0ZXIgaG93IG11Y2ggeW91IHNheSB0aGVyZSBpcyBu byBsaW5rL3NvdXJjZSBidXJkZW4uICBJdCBmZWVscw0KPiBsaWtlIGEgR1BMIHNwbGludGVyIHBy b2plY3QsIGtpbmQgb2YgbGlrZSB0YWtpbmcgdGhlIFBvc3RncmVzIGJhY2tlbmQNCj4gY29kZSBh bmQgdHJ5aW5nIHRvIHJlbGVhc2UgYSBHUEwgdmVyc2lvbiAod2hpY2ggeW91IGFsc28gY291bGQg ZG8sDQo+IGJ1dCBjb21tdW5pdHkgbWVtYmVycyBhcmVuJ3QgZ29pbmcgdG8gYmUgdGhyaWxsZWQg YWJvdXQgaXQpLg0KDQpUaGUgYW5hbG9neSBtYWtlcyBsZXNzIHRoYW4gemVybyBzZW5zZS4gV2Ug ZGlkbid0IHRha2UgcHNxbE9EQkMgY29kZS4NCldlIHN0YXJ0ZWQgZnJvbSBzY3JhdGNoLiBXaGVu IE9EQkNuZyBzdGFydGVkLCBwc3FsT0RCQyB3YXMgZGVhZCBhbmQgbm8NCmRldmVsb3BtZW50IGhh ZCBoYXBwZW4gZm9yIGEgbG9uZyB0aW1lLCBwc3FsT0RCQyB3YXMgYWxzbyBsaWJwcSBiYXNlZA0K d2hpY2ggd2Ugd2FudGVkIG5vdGhpbmcgdG8gZG8gd2l0aC4gDQoNCih5ZXMgSSBhbSBmdWxseSBh d2FyZSB0aGF0IHBzcWxPREJDIG5vIGxvbmdlciBuZWVkcyBsaWJwcSBleGNlcHQgZm9yDQphdXRo IG1ldGhvZHMpLg0KDQpTaW5jZXJlbHksDQoNCkpvc2h1YSBELiBEcmFrZQ0KDQotIC0tIA0KDQog ICAgICA9PT0gVGhlIFBvc3RncmVTUUwgQ29tcGFueTogQ29tbWFuZCBQcm9tcHQsIEluYy4gPT09 DQpTYWxlcy9TdXBwb3J0OiArMS41MDMuNjY3LjQ1NjQgICAyNHg3L0VtZXJnZW5jeTogKzEuODAw LjQ5Mi4yMjQwDQpQb3N0Z3JlU1FMIHNvbHV0aW9ucyBzaW5jZSAxOTk3ICBodHRwOi8vd3d3LmNv bW1hbmRwcm9tcHQuY29tLw0KCQkJVU5JUVVFIE5PVCBOVUxMDQpEb25hdGUgdG8gdGhlIFBvc3Rn cmVTUUwgUHJvamVjdDogaHR0cDovL3d3dy5wb3N0Z3Jlc3FsLm9yZy9hYm91dC9kb25hdGUNClBv c3RncmVTUUwgUmVwbGljYXRpb246IGh0dHA6Ly93d3cuY29tbWFuZHByb21wdC5jb20vcHJvZHVj dHMvDQoNCi0tLS0tQkVHSU4gUEdQIFNJR05BVFVSRS0tLS0tDQpWZXJzaW9uOiBHbnVQRyB2MS40 LjYgKEdOVS9MaW51eCkNCg0KaUQ4REJRRkhQbDRCQVRiL3pxZlpVVVFSQXRjeEFLQ1BYQzYvck1v NFNDUE5OYi8zcGE2ZUJWeGNpZ0NmWXVZdA0KR2hkYTBiVHNVcWVUOVF0UW5kM0xzQ3c9DQo9bnBr eA0KLS0tLS1FTkQgUEdQIFNJR05BVFVSRS0tLS0tDQo= From jd@commandprompt.com Sat Nov 17 04:25:22 2007 Received: from localhost (unknown [200.46.204.187]) by postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0CFFA2E2D68; Sat, 17 Nov 2007 00:25:22 -0400 (AST) Received: from postgresql.org ([200.46.204.71]) by localhost (mx1.hub.org [200.46.204.187]) (amavisd-maia, port 10024) with ESMTP id 73694-05; Sat, 17 Nov 2007 00:25:14 -0400 (AST) Received: from lists.commandprompt.com (host-159.commandprompt.net [207.173.203.159]) by postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A91A12E2DC8; Sat, 17 Nov 2007 00:25:14 -0400 (AST) Received: from localhost (or-69-34-217-90.sta.embarqhsd.net [69.34.217.90]) (authenticated bits=0) by lists.commandprompt.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id lAH4IvDH005439 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Fri, 16 Nov 2007 20:18:57 -0800 Date: Fri, 16 Nov 2007 20:18:55 -0800 From: "Joshua D. Drake" To: "Joshua D. Drake" Cc: Bruce Momjian , "Marc G. Fournier" , Magnus Hagander , Dave Page , PostgreSQL-interfaces Subject: Re: [pgsql-www] change to interfaces.html Message-ID: <20071116201855.2a665399@commandprompt.com> In-Reply-To: <20071116192030.421d7959@commandprompt.com> References: <20071116095423.7fcfbbab@commandprompt.com> <200711170307.lAH37ux15661@momjian.us> <20071116192030.421d7959@commandprompt.com> Organization: Command Prompt, Inc. 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