Subject: ODBC driver maintenance: PostgreSQL 16 support and other open items

From: Devrim Gündüz <[email-masked]>
Date: Sat, 02 Sep 2023 11:27:38 +0100

Hi,

Latest version of ODBC driver fails to build against PostgreSQL 16. A
report is here:

https://www.postgresql.org/message-id/5D27E7EF-BBA7-4A44-8FA5-17BAEFED6EB4%40enterprisedb.com

PostgreSQL 16 RC1 is out, so this needs to be fixed ASAP.

Also there are other pending issues, like:

https://www.postgresql.org/message-id/BY1PR17MB702388305761ED7EC79CA896DC00A%40BY1PR17MB7023.namprd17.prod.outlook.com

and feature requests, like:

https://www.postgresql.org/message-id/SN4PR0601MB861386378F09DA8BA1E956EFFF02A%40SN4PR0601MB8613.namprd06.prod.outlook.com

Do you have a timeline for these? I can see that there are several
people in the mailing list (not me) to step up the plate and help fix
the issues. Would you consider moving project to Github, so that people
can send PR and you can merge them, if you don't have time to fix them
all?

Thanks!

Regards,
-- 
Devrim Gündüz
Open Source Solution Architect, PostgreSQL Major Contributor
Twitter: @DevrimGunduz , @DevrimGunduzTR

---

From: Dave Cramer <[email-masked]>
Date: Sat, 2 Sep 2023 11:19:54 -0400

> can send PR and you can merge them, if you don't have time to fix them

I'd certainly be a proponent of moving to github and helping out maintain
this.

Dave

---

From: Michael Paquier <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 4 Sep 2023 08:44:31 +0900

> I'd certainly be a proponent of moving to github and helping out maintain

That would be like a big change, still if that helps in keeping the
project more healthy than it is now, why not.  From what I can see,
this driver's development has been let aside.

Saito-san and Inoue-san have done a good job over the years spending
cycles on maintaining that.  The question is who could actually take
care of the basic maintenance of the driver?  I do have a little bit
of experience with the ODBC code base in the history of the project in
the 2015~2017 area with its core code and the regression tests as
VMware was relying heavily on it back these days.  So I could handle a
few of the compatibility changes to keep the thing able to build and
pass the tests, but my experience feels kind of limited.  Or it's just
that everybody has zero experience with it and I'm one with the most
experience :)

I was just quickly testing a build, and Debian does not offer
odbc_config that would be in unixodbc, but iodbc is able to build.
I recall that it was slightly easier to work on this stuff with
homebrew under MacOS, actually..
--
Michael

---

From: Dave Cramer <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 4 Sep 2023 07:13:07 -0400

Dave Cramer
www.postgres.rocks

> this driver's development has been let aside.

This really isn't a big change. At least I don't see it that way. It makes
it much easier to create pull requests which are significantly easier to
manage than patch files.

> that everybody has zero experience with it and I'm one with the most

I had some experience looking at it, but would take some time to get up to
speed on this. Something I am willing to do. I'm sort of hoping this is
more of a maintenance thing than active development. I'm certainly willing
to pitch in.

Dave

---

From: Dave Cramer <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 4 Sep 2023 10:07:33 -0400

> more of a maintenance thing than active development. I'm certainly willing

To be clear, I am offering to help in any way. However, only with the
agreement of Saito-san and Inoue-san.

Dave

---

From: Michael Paquier <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 5 Sep 2023 12:21:55 +0900

> more of a maintenance thing than active development. I'm certainly willing

Okay.  I was just checking things, and I don't have a commit bit on
this community repo.  TBH, I am not sure that there is a strong need
to move to github at this stage as long as we are able to get the
situation with the repository stabilized.
--
Michael

---

From: Dave Cramer <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 5 Sep 2023 05:53:17 -0400

> situation with the repository stabilized.

There isn't a *strong* need to do this, but what you get with github is CI
and a much simpler way to document.

I agree fixing the current problem is paramount.

Dave

---

From: SAITO Hiroshi <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 5 Sep 2023 21:46:34 +0900

Hi all.

Sorry for the late reaction.

As for Inoue-san and Me, need a lot of time to responce to one email.

I now was able to see it, only say.....

Sorry, please wait for the next response.

Regards,

SAITO Hiroshi.

On 2023/09/05 18:53, Dave Cramer wrote:
> On Mon, 4 Sept 2023 at 23:22, Michael Paquier<[email-masked]>  wrote:
>

---

From: Joe Conway <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 6 Sep 2023 12:10:19 -0400

> Sorry, please wait for the next response.

Hello Saito-san and Inoue-san,

We are running out of time until the Postgres v16 release -- it is 
currently scheduled for next week on 14 September.

Two people, Dave Cramer and Michael Paquier, have offered to help if you 
will allow them to have commit access to the repository.

Please let us know your response as soon as possible.

Many thanks,

-- 
Joe Conway
PostgreSQL Contributors Team
RDS Open Source Databases
Amazon Web Services: https://aws.amazon.com

---

From: Michael Paquier <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 7 Sep 2023 12:36:40 +0900

On Wed, Sep 06, 2023 at 12:10:19PM -0400, Joe Conway wrote:
> We are running out of time until the Postgres v16 release -- it is currently
> scheduled for next week on 14 September.
> 

Confirmed.  I am not sure if I could help with integration of
complicated features, but I'm OK with stabilizing the whole and making
sure that the regression tests are able to run where they should,
perhaps except Windows.  In my experience with this code from a few
years back, the portability of changes matters less than the
stability of the code between the ODBC layer and the internal
SAVEPOINT-heavy logic.  Even more now that this stuff requires libpq
and does not speak directly the Postgres protocol.
--
Michael

---

From: "Inoue,Hiroshi" <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 7 Sep 2023 14:28:53 +0900

Hi
Sorry for the late reply.

Unfortunately I have little time to spare for psqlodbc. I have been busy
with stroke rehabilitation and turned 70 years three days ago. I'll
probably have to retire.
However, if an emergency release is necessary, we can probably make a new
release.

regards,
Hiroshi Inoue

---

From: Devrim Gündüz <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 07 Sep 2023 10:37:58 +0100

Hi Inoue-san,

On Thu, 2023-09-07 at 14:28 +0900, Inoue,Hiroshi wrote:
> I have been busy with stroke rehabilitation and turned 70 years three
> days ago.

:-( Very sorry to hear that. 

> I'll probably have to retire.

:(

> However, if an emergency release is necessary, we can probably make a
> new release.

Releasing a new version requires not only commit bits, also requires
access to our infra (am I right, Joe?) I'm not sure other people can
make it happen before v16 release. So yes, we at least need to release a
new version ASAP soon for v16 compatibility (patches are already out). 

After the release, we can talk about the future roadmap.

Regards,

---

From: Dave Cramer <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 7 Sep 2023 06:00:50 -0400

Hello Inoue-san,

On Thu, 7 Sept 2023 at 01:29, Inoue,Hiroshi <[email-masked]> wrote:

> with stroke rehabilitation
>
Very sorry to hear this.

> and turned 70 years three days ago. I'll probably have to retire.

Let me know how I can help.

> Confirmed that I am willing to help here.

Regards,
Dave

---

From: Joe Conway <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 7 Sep 2023 06:40:32 -0400

> with stroke rehabilitation and turned 70 years three days ago. I'll 

I am so very sorry to hear about your health problems. Please take care 
of yourself.

> However, if an emergency release is necessary, we can probably make a 

Thank you. Please let us know how we can help carry on your important 
PostgreSQL work.

---

From: "Inoue,Hiroshi" <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 8 Sep 2023 15:50:08 +0900

Hi,

I've pushed changes about standard bool to git.
Are there any other urgent changes?

regards,
Hiroshi Inoue

---

From: Michael Paquier <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 8 Sep 2023 15:58:50 +0900

> Are there any other urgent changes?

This one was the most urgent one to allow the driver to compile.  I
think that there are other issues with the regression tests as well
where I was able to cause them to fail.

>> I am so very sorry to hear about your health problems. Please take care

Health first, please take care.

>> Thank you. Please let us know how we can help carry on your important

At this stage, Inoue-san and Saito-san, would you be OK if more people
gain access as committers to the ODBC repository to help with its
maintenance?

You are the ones with the most history working on this driver, so I
guess that it comes to both of you to decide if you are OK with more
people pushing code there and share the maintenance workload.  This
includes psqlodbc-www as well, of course, to maintain the website and
push new releases.

I am based in Tokyo for a few years now, but I am not sure that we
have met in person, to be honest (I speak Japanese fluently)..
Perhaps we have met at one of the JPUG conferences in the past?
--
Michael

---

From: Devrim Gündüz <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 08 Sep 2023 10:44:59 +0100

Hi Inoue-san,

> Are there any other urgent changes?

Thank you very much! As the RPM packager, I will need a new release so
that I can push ODBC driver to PostgreSQL 16 repos.

Regards,

---

From: Dave Cramer <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 8 Sep 2023 05:53:45 -0400

Hi Inoue-san

Please take care of yourself and let us know if there is anything we can
help with.

Regards,
Dave Cramer

---

From: "Inoue,Hiroshi" <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 8 Sep 2023 21:09:10 +0900

Hi Michael,

> includes psqlodbc-www as well, of course, to maintain the website and

We are OK. It's impossible for us to continue development on our own.

> Perhaps we have met at one of the JPUG conferences in the past?

Yes, we have met once at a JPUG conference.
I haven't been to Tokyo in a long time because of my illness.
But I may be able to go to Tokyo this month and meet Saito-san.

---

From: Michael Paquier <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2023 11:14:07 +0900

> But I may be able to go to Tokyo this month and meet Saito-san.

There's also a JPUG conference planned in November in Tokyo, if you
are interested:
https://www.postgresql.jp/jpug-pgcon2023

It should be relatively easy to find me there.
--
Michael