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* Planner enhancement suggestion.
@ 2006-03-05 21:00 PFC <lists@peufeu.com>
2006-03-07 00:19 ` Re: Planner enhancement suggestion. Jim C. Nasby <jnasby@pervasive.com>
0 siblings, 1 reply; 4+ messages in thread
From: PFC @ 2006-03-05 21:00 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: pgsql-performance
Bitmap index scan is bliss. Many thanks to the postgres team ! Now
searching in tables with a lot of fields and conditions is no longer a
pain.
And just a thought :
SELECT * FROM table WHERE category IN (1,2,3) ORDER BY price LIMIT 10;
Suppose you have an index on category, and another index on price.
Depending on the stats postgres has about the values, you'll either get :
0- seq scan + sort
1- Plain or Bitmap Index scan using "category", then sort by "price"
2- Index scan on "price", Filter on "category IN (1,2,3)", no sort.
1 is efficient if the category is rare. Postgres knows this and uses this
plan well.
Without a LIMIT, option 1 should be preferred.
2 is efficient if the items in the categories 1,2,3 are cheap (close to
the start of the index on price). However if the items in question are on
the other side of the index, it will index-scan a large part of the table.
This can be a big hit. Postgres has no stats about the correlation of
"category" and "price", so it won't know when there is going to be a
problem.
Another option would be interesting. It has two steps :
- Build a bitmap using the index on "category" (just like in case 1)
so we know which pages on the table have relevant rows
- Index scan on "price", but only looking in the heap for pages which are
flagged in the bitmap, and then "Recheck Cond" on "category".
In other words, do an index scan to get the rows in the right order, but
don't bother to check the heap for pages where the bitmap says there are
no rows.
In the worst case, you still have to run through the entire index, but at
least not through the entire table !
It can also speed up some merge joins.
What do you think ?
^ permalink raw reply [nested|flat] 4+ messages in thread
* Re: Planner enhancement suggestion.
2006-03-05 21:00 Planner enhancement suggestion. PFC <lists@peufeu.com>
@ 2006-03-07 00:19 ` Jim C. Nasby <jnasby@pervasive.com>
2006-03-07 18:09 ` Re: Planner enhancement suggestion. PFC <lists@peufeu.com>
0 siblings, 1 reply; 4+ messages in thread
From: Jim C. Nasby @ 2006-03-07 00:19 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: PFC <lists@peufeu.com>; +Cc: pgsql-performance
On Sun, Mar 05, 2006 at 10:00:25PM +0100, PFC wrote:
>
> Bitmap index scan is bliss. Many thanks to the postgres team ! Now
> searching in tables with a lot of fields and conditions is no longer a
> pain.
>
> And just a thought :
>
> SELECT * FROM table WHERE category IN (1,2,3) ORDER BY price LIMIT
> 10;
>
> Suppose you have an index on category, and another index on price.
> Depending on the stats postgres has about the values, you'll either get :
>
> 0- seq scan + sort
> 1- Plain or Bitmap Index scan using "category", then sort by "price"
> 2- Index scan on "price", Filter on "category IN (1,2,3)", no sort.
>
> 1 is efficient if the category is rare. Postgres knows this and uses
> this plan well.
> Without a LIMIT, option 1 should be preferred.
>
> 2 is efficient if the items in the categories 1,2,3 are cheap (close
> to the start of the index on price). However if the items in question are
> on the other side of the index, it will index-scan a large part of the
> table. This can be a big hit. Postgres has no stats about the correlation
> of "category" and "price", so it won't know when there is going to be a
> problem.
>
> Another option would be interesting. It has two steps :
>
> - Build a bitmap using the index on "category" (just like in case 1)
> so we know which pages on the table have relevant rows
>
> - Index scan on "price", but only looking in the heap for pages
> which are flagged in the bitmap, and then "Recheck Cond" on "category".
> In other words, do an index scan to get the rows in the right order,
> but don't bother to check the heap for pages where the bitmap says there
> are no rows.
> In the worst case, you still have to run through the entire index,
> but at least not through the entire table !
>
> It can also speed up some merge joins.
The problem is that you're now talking about doing 2 index scans instead
of just one and a sort. If the correlation on price is high, it could
still win. As the cost estimator for index scan stands right now,
there's no way such a plan would be chosen unless correlation was
extremely high, however.
--
Jim C. Nasby, Sr. Engineering Consultant jnasby@pervasive.com
Pervasive Software http://pervasive.com work: 512-231-6117
vcard: http://jim.nasby.net/pervasive.vcf cell: 512-569-9461
^ permalink raw reply [nested|flat] 4+ messages in thread
* Re: Planner enhancement suggestion.
2006-03-05 21:00 Planner enhancement suggestion. PFC <lists@peufeu.com>
2006-03-07 00:19 ` Re: Planner enhancement suggestion. Jim C. Nasby <jnasby@pervasive.com>
@ 2006-03-07 18:09 ` PFC <lists@peufeu.com>
2006-03-07 18:37 ` Re: Planner enhancement suggestion. Jim C. Nasby <jnasby@pervasive.com>
0 siblings, 1 reply; 4+ messages in thread
From: PFC @ 2006-03-07 18:09 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Jim C. Nasby <jnasby@pervasive.com>; +Cc: pgsql-performance
> The problem is that you're now talking about doing 2 index scans instead
> of just one and a sort.
It depends on what you call an index scan :
a- Scanning just the index (no heap lookup) to create a bitmap
b- Scanning the index and hitting the heap in index order to retrieve the
rows
(a) should be quite fast, because indexes generally use less space than
the main table, and have good locality of reference. (b) is OK if the
table fits in memory, but if it has to seek on every row from the heap...
So, when doing :
SELECT * FROM products WHERE category=C ORDER BY price LIMIT 20;
If the category contains few products, using the index on category then
sorting is good.
However, if the category contains many items, postgres is likely to use
the index on price to avoid the sort. It needs to lose time fetching many
rows from the heap which will not be in category C. In that case, I guess
it would be a win to build a bitmap of the pages containing rows which
belongs to category C, and only do the heap lookup on these pages.
I have a query like that. When category C contains cheap products, the
index scan on price finds them pretty quick. However if it is a category
containing mostly expensive products, the index scan will have to hit most
of the table in order to find them. The time needed for the query for
these two extreme varies from 1 ms to about 20 ms (and that's because the
table is fully cached, or else the worst case would be a lot slower). I
would definitely prefer a constant 2 ms. The other solution is to create
an index on (category,price), but this path leads to lots, lots of indexes
given all the combinations.
The bitmap trick I proposed in my previous post would be even more
interesting if the table is clustered on category (which seems a
reasonable thing to do).
> If the correlation on price is high, it could
> still win. As the cost estimator for index scan stands right now,
> there's no way such a plan would be chosen unless correlation was
> extremely high, however.
Does the cost estimator know about this kind of correlation ?
^ permalink raw reply [nested|flat] 4+ messages in thread
* Re: Planner enhancement suggestion.
2006-03-05 21:00 Planner enhancement suggestion. PFC <lists@peufeu.com>
2006-03-07 00:19 ` Re: Planner enhancement suggestion. Jim C. Nasby <jnasby@pervasive.com>
2006-03-07 18:09 ` Re: Planner enhancement suggestion. PFC <lists@peufeu.com>
@ 2006-03-07 18:37 ` Jim C. Nasby <jnasby@pervasive.com>
0 siblings, 0 replies; 4+ messages in thread
From: Jim C. Nasby @ 2006-03-07 18:37 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: PFC <lists@peufeu.com>; +Cc: pgsql-performance
On Tue, Mar 07, 2006 at 07:09:15PM +0100, PFC wrote:
>
> >The problem is that you're now talking about doing 2 index scans instead
> >of just one and a sort.
>
> It depends on what you call an index scan :
> a- Scanning just the index (no heap lookup) to create a bitmap
Sure, and then you scan the other index and read the heap at the same
time (b). Your plan requires doing both. The question is: in what cases
will it be faster to scan the extra index and build the bitmap vs. just
doing a sort.
> b- Scanning the index and hitting the heap in index order to
> retrieve the rows
>
> (a) should be quite fast, because indexes generally use less space
> than the main table, and have good locality of reference. (b) is OK if the
> table fits in memory, but if it has to seek on every row from the heap...
If the table fits in memory, who cares? A sort should be damn fast at
that point, because you're dealing with a small set of data.
> So, when doing :
> SELECT * FROM products WHERE category=C ORDER BY price LIMIT 20;
>
> If the category contains few products, using the index on category
> then sorting is good.
> However, if the category contains many items, postgres is likely to
> use the index on price to avoid the sort. It needs to lose time fetching
Have you actually seen this behavior? My experience is that you have to
have a correlation somewhere over 80-90% before an index scan is favored
over a seqscan + sort (which as I mentioned before appears to be
broken).
> The bitmap trick I proposed in my previous post would be even more
> interesting if the table is clustered on category (which seems a
> reasonable thing to do).
In which case it's highly unlikely that using the price index will buy
you anything.
> Does the cost estimator know about this kind of correlation ?
Yes. The problem is that the index scan cost estimator figures out a
best and worst case cost, and then interpolates between the two using
correlation^2. IMO it should be using abs(correlation) to do this, and
there's some data at http://stats.distributed.net/~decibel/ that backs
this up. There's also been some discussions on -hackers (search the
archives for "index cost correlation nasby"), but I've not had time to
follow up on this. If you wanted to test a new index cost formula it
would be a one line change to the code.
--
Jim C. Nasby, Sr. Engineering Consultant jnasby@pervasive.com
Pervasive Software http://pervasive.com work: 512-231-6117
vcard: http://jim.nasby.net/pervasive.vcf cell: 512-569-9461
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2006-03-05 21:00 Planner enhancement suggestion. PFC <lists@peufeu.com>
2006-03-07 00:19 ` Jim C. Nasby <jnasby@pervasive.com>
2006-03-07 18:09 ` PFC <lists@peufeu.com>
2006-03-07 18:37 ` Jim C. Nasby <jnasby@pervasive.com>
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