From mbenne@m-bass.com Wed Aug  29 19:29:07 2007
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From: Markus Benne <mbenne@m-bass.com>
Subject: Transaction Log
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For best performance, the transaction log should be on a separate disk.=0A=
=0ADoes the writing of the log benefit from a battery backed controller as =
well?  If not, what do people think about writing the transaction log to a =
flash card or the like?=0A=0A
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t"><div>For best performance, the transaction log should be on a separate d=
isk.<br><br>Does the writing of the log benefit from a battery backed contr=
oller as well?&nbsp; If not, what do people think about writing the transac=
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From mbguy2000-1@yahoo.com Wed Aug  29 19:31:20 2007
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From: mbguy2000-1@yahoo.com
Subject: Transaction Log
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For best performance, the transaction log should be on a separate disk.=0A=
=0ADoes=0Athe writing of the log benefit from a battery backed controller a=
s=0Awell?  If not, what do people think about writing the transaction log=
=0Ato a flash card or the like?=0A
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ad><body><div style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:12p=
t"><div>For best performance, the transaction log should be on a separate d=
isk.<br><br>Does=0Athe writing of the log benefit from a battery backed con=
troller as=0Awell?&nbsp; If not, what do people think about writing the tra=
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From mark@mark.mielke.cc Wed Aug  29 19:54:19 2007
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From: Mark Mielke <mark@mark.mielke.cc>
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mbguy2000-1@yahoo.com wrote:
> For best performance, the transaction log should be on a separate disk.
>
> Does the writing of the log benefit from a battery backed controller 
> as well?  If not, what do people think about writing the transaction 
> log to a flash card or the like?
How popular are the battery backed RAM drives that exist today? I don't 
recall seeing them spoken about in this mailing list. The local geek 
shop has these devices on sale. Are they still too expensive?

For those that don't know what I am talking about - they are PCI devices 
that present themselves as a hard drive, but are filled with commodity 
RAM instead of a magnetic platter, and a battery that lasts a few weeks 
without external power.

Cheers,
mark

-- 
Mark Mielke <mark@mielke.cc>


--------------090103070607010707070905
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<body bgcolor="#ffffff" text="#000000">
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:mbguy2000-1@yahoo.com">mbguy2000-1@yahoo.com</a> wrote:
<blockquote cite="mid:782718.73151.qm@web31603.mail.mud.yahoo.com"
 type="cite">
  <style type="text/css"><!-- DIV {margin:0px;} --></style>
  <div style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif; font-size: 12pt;">
  <div>For best performance, the transaction log should be on a
separate disk.<br>
  <br>
Does
the writing of the log benefit from a battery backed controller as
well?&nbsp; If not, what do people think about writing the transaction log
to a flash card or the like?</div>
  </div>
</blockquote>
How popular are the battery backed RAM drives that exist today? I don't
recall seeing them spoken about in this mailing list. The local geek
shop has these devices on sale. Are they still too expensive?<br>
<br>
For those that don't know what I am talking about - they are PCI
devices that present themselves as a hard drive, but are filled with
commodity RAM instead of a magnetic platter, and a battery that lasts a
few weeks without external power.<br>
<br>
Cheers,<br>
mark<br>
<br>
<pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">-- 
Mark Mielke <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:mark@mielke.cc">&lt;mark@mielke.cc&gt;</a>
</pre>
</body>
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--------------090103070607010707070905--



From steve@blighty.com Wed Aug  29 20:11:44 2007
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From: Steve Atkins <steve@blighty.com>
Subject: Re: Transaction Log
Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2007 13:11:32 -0700
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On Aug 29, 2007, at 12:54 PM, Mark Mielke wrote:

> mbguy2000-1@yahoo.com wrote:
>> For best performance, the transaction log should be on a separate  
>> disk.
>>
>> Does the writing of the log benefit from a battery backed  
>> controller as well?  If not, what do people think about writing  
>> the transaction log to a flash card or the like?
> How popular are the battery backed RAM drives that exist today? I  
> don't recall seeing them spoken about in this mailing list. The  
> local geek shop has these devices on sale. Are they still too  
> expensive?
>
> For those that don't know what I am talking about - they are PCI  
> devices that present themselves as a hard drive, but are filled  
> with commodity RAM instead of a magnetic platter, and a battery  
> that lasts a few weeks without external power.

It think the general conclusion was "When they come out with an ECC  
version, we'll look at them."

There are higher end ones that do have ECC RAM (and backup drives and  
stuff) but they're spectacularly more expensive than the cheapo  
consumer ones.

Cheers,
   Steve






From sgunderson@bigfoot.com Wed Aug  29 20:18:05 2007
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Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2007 22:17:58 +0200
From: "Steinar H. Gunderson" <sgunderson@bigfoot.com>
To: pgsql-performance@postgresql.org
Subject: Re: Transaction Log
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On Wed, Aug 29, 2007 at 01:11:32PM -0700, Steve Atkins wrote:
> It think the general conclusion was "When they come out with an ECC 
> version, we'll look at them."

FWIW, it shouldn't be impossible to implement ECC in software; they'd still
be orders of magnitude faster than normal disks.

/* Steinar */
-- 
Homepage: http://www.sesse.net/



From wmoran@collaborativefusion.com Wed Aug  29 20:22:04 2007
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From: Bill Moran <wmoran@collaborativefusion.com>
To: Mark Mielke <mark@mark.mielke.cc>
Cc: mbguy2000-1@yahoo.com, pgsql-performance@postgresql.org
Subject: Re: Transaction Log
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In response to Mark Mielke <mark@mark.mielke.cc>:

> mbguy2000-1@yahoo.com wrote:
> > For best performance, the transaction log should be on a separate disk.
> >
> > Does the writing of the log benefit from a battery backed controller 
> > as well?  If not, what do people think about writing the transaction 
> > log to a flash card or the like?

Flash cards write _very_ slowly.

> How popular are the battery backed RAM drives that exist today? I don't 
> recall seeing them spoken about in this mailing list. The local geek 
> shop has these devices on sale. Are they still too expensive?

I've seen them around and as best I can tell, they're pretty
inexpensive.  The main drawback is the storage, you'd be looking at
the price of the card, plus the price of however much RAM you wanted
on it.

http://www.amazon.com/Gigabyte-GC-RAMDISK-i-RAM-Hard-Drive/dp/B000EPM9NC/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1/102-3968336-1618519?ie=UTF8&s=electronics&qid=1188418613&sr=8-1
http://techreport.com/articles.x/9312/1
Up to 4G, but you have to add the price of the RAM on to the price of
the card.

In the case of WAL logs, you could probably get away with a lot less
space than many other usages, so they might be very practical.

-- 
Bill Moran
Collaborative Fusion Inc.
http://people.collaborativefusion.com/~wmoran/

wmoran@collaborativefusion.com
Phone: 412-422-3463x4023



From ahodgson@simkin.ca Wed Aug  29 20:37:06 2007
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From: Alan Hodgson <ahodgson@simkin.ca>
Organization: Simkin Network Consulting
To: pgsql-performance@postgresql.org
Subject: Re: Transaction Log
Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2007 13:36:48 -0700
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On Wednesday 29 August 2007, Steve Atkins <steve@blighty.com> wrote:
> There are higher end ones that do have ECC RAM (and backup drives and
> stuff) but they're spectacularly more expensive than the cheapo
> consumer ones.
>

Yeah the good ones look more like http://ramsan.com/ .

-- 
"Pulling together is the aim of despotism and tyranny. Free men pull in 
all kinds of directions." -- Terry Pratchett