Message-ID: <4D275F74.3040405@2ndquadrant.com>
Date: Fri, 07 Jan 2011 13:46:12 -0500
From: Greg Smith <greg@2ndquadrant.com>
User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.24 (X11/20100317)
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: Samuel Gendler <sgendler@ideasculptor.com>
CC: Tom Lane <tgl@sss.pgh.pa.us>, Josh Berkus <josh@agliodbs.com>,
	Jeff Janes <jeff.janes@gmail.com>, pgsql-performance@postgresql.org
Subject: Re: Wrong docs on wal_buffers?
References: <4D24D7DE.6020507@agliodbs.com>
	<AANLkTi=YLCEGcwa-9hFYykRgTfUVDhZrwNGo7qaJZnRC@mail.gmail.com>
	<4D2610F3.8070407@agliodbs.com>	<4D269899.6040901@2ndquadrant.com>
	<AANLkTik52Agzi+3dUsdK5=UK6BeLLz2fU7FLF07hy+Yy@mail.gmail.com>
	<18962.1294412821@sss.pgh.pa.us>
	<AANLkTinic_jZ4M7W4ffxanw2rcEE_BVw+w44LRS6Tzy3@mail.gmail.com>
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTinic_jZ4M7W4ffxanw2rcEE_BVw+w44LRS6Tzy3@mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Samuel Gendler wrote:
> I was trying to make the point that, in an attempt to make things very 
> easy for novice users, we are actually making them quite a bit more 
> complex for novice users who want to do anything besides start the server.

People who can't start the server often abandon PostgreSQL, never come 
back again.  And in the worst case, they popularize their frustration 
via blogs etc.  That contributes to the perception the program is hard 
to use far more than people who run into problems only with 
performance--people expect database tuning to be non-trivial, but they 
have minimal tolerance for trouble when first trying to use a program.  
 From an advocacy perspective, there is no higher priority than making 
sure things work as smoothly as feasible for people who have never run 
PostgreSQL before.  Changing the software so it doesn't work out of the 
box on a system with minimal shared memory defaults, as seen on Linux 
and other operating systems, would be one of the worst possible changes 
to the database anyone could make.

About once a month now I came across someone who used my pgtune 
program:  https://github.com/gregs1104/pgtune to get a reasonable 
starting configuration.  That program is still rough and has 
limitations, but the general idea turns out to work just fine.  I'm 
bored with discussions about making this easier for users unless they 
involve people volunteering to help with the coding needed to turn that, 
or something better than it, into a release quality tool.  The path to 
sort this out is mapped out in excruciating detail from my perspective.  
The only thing missing are code contributors with time to walk down it.  
So far it's me, occasional code refinement from Matt Harrison, some 
packager help, and periodic review from people like Josh Berkus.  And 
that's just not good enough to make progress on this particular front 
quickly enough.

-- 
Greg Smith   2ndQuadrant US    greg@2ndQuadrant.com   Baltimore, MD
PostgreSQL Training, Services and Support        www.2ndQuadrant.us
"PostgreSQL 9.0 High Performance": http://www.2ndQuadrant.com/books