Received: from maia.hub.org (maia-2.hub.org [200.46.204.251]) by mail.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 65F2A1337B68 for ; Fri, 4 Feb 2011 12:06:37 -0400 (AST) Received: from mail.postgresql.org ([200.46.204.86]) by maia.hub.org (mx1.hub.org [200.46.204.251]) (amavisd-maia, port 10024) with ESMTP id 97371-05 for ; Fri, 4 Feb 2011 16:06:30 +0000 (UTC) X-Greylist: from auto-whitelisted by SQLgrey-1.7.6 Received: from lpo-relay-05.vmsinfo.com (lpo-relay-05.vmsinfo.com [216.169.137.116]) by mail.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E0A371337B51 for ; Fri, 4 Feb 2011 12:06:29 -0400 (AST) X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.60,426,1291611600"; d="scan'208";a="31640992" Received: from unknown (HELO lpo-mailbox-02.vmsinfo.com) ([216.169.137.252]) by lpo-relay-05.vmsinfo.com with ESMTP; 04 Feb 2011 11:06:28 -0500 Received: from [10.101.43.35] (lpo-autonomy-p03.vmsinfo.com [216.169.135.234]) by lpo-mailbox-02.vmsinfo.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 82B2456272; Fri, 4 Feb 2011 11:06:28 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <4D4C2404.4070104@vmsinfo.com> Date: Fri, 04 Feb 2011 11:06:28 -0500 From: Mladen Gogala Organization: VMS User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.24 (X11/20101027) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: =?UTF-8?B?Q8OpZHJpYyBWaWxsZW1haW4=?= CC: Frank Heikens , "tivv00@gmail.com" , pgsql-performance Subject: Re: Talking about optimizer, my long dream References: <4D4C0590.1050609@vmsinfo.com> <87f423d3-5ba1-e083-89a9-b034d031cc77@me.com> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Virus-Scanned: Maia Mailguard 1.0.1 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-1.91 tagged_above=-10 required=5 tests=BAYES_00=-1.9, T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.01 X-Spam-Level: X-Archive-Number: 201102/269 X-Sequence-Number: 42407 Please, don't include me on your emails. I unsubscribed from the list. Cédric Villemain wrote: > 2011/2/4 Frank Heikens : > >> On 04 Feb, 2011,at 02:56 PM, Mladen Gogala >> wrote: >> >> Віталій Тимчишин wrote: >> >>> Hi, all. >>> >>> All this optimizer vs hint thread >>> >> There is no "optimizer vs. hint". Hints are a necessary part of the >> optimizer in all other databases. >> >> >> That has nothing to do with PostgreSQL: PostgreSQL = PostgreSQL. And it >> doesn't have hints and everybody knows it. >> >> Without hints Postgres will not get >> used in the company that I work for, period. >> >> >> That's up to you, that's fine. But why did you start with PostgreSQL in the >> first place? You knew PostgreSQL doesn't have hints and the wiki told you >> hints are not wanted as well. When hints are an essential requirement for >> your company, you should pick another product, EnterpriseDB Postgres Plus >> for example. >> >> I was willing to wait but >> the fatwa against hints seems unyielding, >> >> >> There is no fatwa. The PostgreSQL project prefers to spend resources on a >> better optimizer to solve the real problems, not on hints for working around >> the problems. That has nothing to do with any fatwa or religion. >> >> so that's it. I am even >> inclined to believe that deep down under the hood, this fatwa has an >> ulterior motive, which disgusts me deeply. With hints, there would be >> far fewer consulting gigs. >> >> >> The consulting guys are the ones who love hints: They know they have to come >> back the other month because the old hint does more harm than good when data >> changes. And data will change over time. >> >> You said it's so simple to implement hints in PostgreSQL, so please, show >> us. Or ask/pay somebody to write this simple code for you to support hints, >> nobody will ever stop you from doing that. When you have a use case that >> proves the usage of hints will improve the performance of PostgreSQL and you >> have some code that can be maintained by the PostgreSQL project, it might be >> implemented in the contrib or even core. It's up to you, not somebody else. >> > > Just in case you miss it: > http://www.sai.msu.su/~megera/wiki/plantuner > > Btw feel free to do how you want, it is open source, and BSD, you can > take PostgreSQL, add hints, go and sell that to your boss. > > > >> >> Mladen Gogala >> Sr. Oracle DBA >> 1500 Broadway >> New York, NY 10036 >> (212) 329-5251 >> www.vmsinfo.com >> >> >> -- >> Sent via pgsql-performance mailing list (pgsql-performance@postgresql.org) >> To make changes to your subscription: >> http://www.postgresql.org/mailpref/pgsql-performance >> >> > > > > -- Mladen Gogala Sr. Oracle DBA 1500 Broadway New York, NY 10036 (212) 329-5251 http://www.vmsinfo.com The Leader in Integrated Media Intelligence Solutions