X-Original-To: pgsql-performance-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org Received: from localhost (unknown [200.46.204.144]) by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8F81C52849 for ; Fri, 17 Jun 2005 18:30:58 -0300 (ADT) Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([200.46.204.71]) by localhost (av.hub.org [200.46.204.144]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 24208-10 for ; Fri, 17 Jun 2005 21:30:53 +0000 (GMT) Received: from apate.telenet-ops.be (apate.telenet-ops.be [195.130.132.57]) by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9B9575282C for ; Fri, 17 Jun 2005 18:30:52 -0300 (ADT) Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by apate.telenet-ops.be (Postfix) with SMTP id EC03F3815A for ; Fri, 17 Jun 2005 23:30:54 +0200 (CEST) Received: from [10.0.1.11] (d5152B1F3.access.telenet.be [81.82.177.243]) by apate.telenet-ops.be (Postfix) with ESMTP id C36BB3804F for ; Fri, 17 Jun 2005 23:30:53 +0200 (CEST) Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v622) To: pgsql-performance@postgresql.org Message-Id: Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary=Apple-Mail-161--997260469 From: Yves Vindevogel Subject: Fwd: Multiple disks: RAID 5 or PG Cluster Date: Fri, 17 Jun 2005 23:31:00 +0200 X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.622) X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at hub.org X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0 tagged_above=0 required=5 tests= X-Spam-Level: X-Archive-Number: 200506/355 X-Sequence-Number: 12992 --Apple-Mail-161--997260469 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=Apple-Mail-162--997260469 --Apple-Mail-162--997260469 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed BTW, tnx for the opinion ... I forgot to cc list ... Begin forwarded message: > From: Yves Vindevogel > Date: Fri 17 Jun 2005 23:29:32 CEST > To: mudfoot@rawbw.com > Subject: Re: [PERFORM] Multiple disks: RAID 5 or PG Cluster > > Ok, striping is a good option ... > > I'll tell you why I don't care about dataloss > > 1) The database will run 6 months, no more. > 2) The database is fed with upload files. So, if I have a backup each=20= > day, plus my files of that day, I can restore pretty quickly. > 3) Power failure is out of the question: battery backup (UPS), disk=20 > failure is minimal change: new server, new discs, 6 months ... > > We do have about 500.000 new records each day in that database, so=20 > that's why I want performance > Records are uploaded in one major table and then denormalised into=20 > several others. > > But, I would like to hear somebody about the clustering method. Isn't=20= > that much used ? > Or isn't it used in a single machine ? > > On 17 Jun 2005, at 22:38, mudfoot@rawbw.com wrote: > >> If you truly do not care about data protection -- either from drive=20= >> loss or from >> sudden power failure, or anything else -- and just want to get the=20 >> fastest >> possible performance, then do RAID 0 (striping). It may be faster to=20= >> do that >> with software RAID on the host than with a special RAID controller. =20= >> And turn >> off fsyncing the write ahead log in postgresql.conf (fsync =3D = false). >> >> But be prepared to replace your whole database from scratch (or=20 >> backup or >> whatever) if you lose a single hard drive. And if you have a sudden=20= >> power loss >> or other type of unclean system shutdown (kernel panic or something)=20= >> then your >> data integrity will be at risk as well. >> >> To squeeze evena little bit more performance, put your operating=20 >> system, swap >> and PostgreSQL binaries on a cheap IDE or SATA drive--and only your=20= >> data on the >> 5 striped SCSI drives. >> >> I do not know what clustering would do for you. But striping will=20 >> provide a >> high level of assurance that each of your hard drives will process=20 >> equivalent >> amounts of IO operations. >> >> Quoting Yves Vindevogel : >> >>> Hi, >>> >>> We are looking to build a new machine for a big PG database. >>> We were wondering if a machine with 5 scsi-disks would perform = better >>> if we use a hardware raid 5 controller or if we would go for the >>> clustering in PG. >>> If we cluster in PG, do we have redundancy on the data like in a=20 >>> RAID 5 >>> ? >>> >>> First concern is performance, not redundancy (we can do that a >>> different way because all data comes from upload files) >>> >>> Met vriendelijke groeten, >>> Bien =E0 vous, >>> Kind regards, >>> >>> Yves Vindevogel >>> Implements >>> >>> >> >> >> >> ---------------------------(end of=20 >> broadcast)--------------------------- >> TIP 8: explain analyze is your friend >> >> > Met vriendelijke groeten, > Bien =E0 vous, > Kind regards, > > Yves Vindevogel > Implements > --Apple-Mail-162--997260469 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/enriched; charset=ISO-8859-1 BTW, tnx for the opinion ... I forgot to cc list ... Begin forwarded message: 0000,0000,0000From: Yves Vindevogel < 0000,0000,0000Date: Fri 17 Jun 2005 23:29:32 CEST 0000,0000,0000To: mudfoot@rawbw.com 0000,0000,0000Subject: Re: [PERFORM] Multiple disks: RAID 5 or PG Cluster Ok, striping is a good option ... I'll tell you why I don't care about dataloss 1) The database will run 6 months, no more. 2) The database is fed with upload files. So, if I have a backup each day, plus my files of that day, I can restore pretty quickly. 3) Power failure is out of the question: battery backup (UPS), disk failure is minimal change: new server, new discs, 6 months ... We do have about 500.000 new records each day in that database, so that's why I want performance Records are uploaded in one major table and then denormalised into several others. But, I would like to hear somebody about the clustering method. Isn't that much used ? Or isn't it used in a single machine ? On 17 Jun 2005, at 22:38, mudfoot@rawbw.com wrote: If you truly do not care about data protection -- either from drive loss or from sudden power failure, or anything else -- and just want to get the fastest possible performance, then do RAID 0 (striping). It may be faster to do that with software RAID on the host than with a special RAID controller.=20 And turn off fsyncing the write ahead log in postgresql.conf (fsync =3D false). But be prepared to replace your whole database from scratch (or backup or whatever) if you lose a single hard drive. And if you have a sudden power loss or other type of unclean system shutdown (kernel panic or something) then your data integrity will be at risk as well. To squeeze evena little bit more performance, put your operating system, swap and PostgreSQL binaries on a cheap IDE or SATA drive--and only your data on the 5 striped SCSI drives. I do not know what clustering would do for you. But striping will provide a high level of assurance that each of your hard drives will process equivalent amounts of IO operations. Quoting Yves Vindevogel <: Hi, We are looking to build a new machine for a big PG database. We were wondering if a machine with 5 scsi-disks would perform better=20 if we use a hardware raid 5 controller or if we would go for the=20 clustering in PG. If we cluster in PG, do we have redundancy on the data like in a RAID 5=20 ? First concern is performance, not redundancy (we can do that a=20 different way because all data comes from upload files) Met vriendelijke groeten, Bien =E0 vous, Kind regards, Yves Vindevogel Implements ---------------------------(end of broadcast)--------------------------- TIP 8: explain analyze is your friend Met vriendelijke groeten, Bien =E0 vous, Kind regards, Yves Vindevogel Implements = --Apple-Mail-162--997260469-- --Apple-Mail-161--997260469 Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Type: image/tiff; x-unix-mode=0666; name="Pasted Graphic 2.tiff" Content-Disposition: inline; filename="Pasted Graphic 2.tiff" TU0AKgAAFciAP6BP5/wWDQeEQmFQuGQ2HQ+FP5+v9rOh5P9IMBuP8zK9tP8fJNlP8QoNjP8FndhP 8MnyVjJHSMrqFnv9BL1vP9ett2v98PuJxChUOiUWGQOCUalUujOV4PZ/qBluR/mdVtJ/jVHst/ho 9MF/g08WABHJfv8AWa0WoAHFfWuzgg6sB/hY9ysUohjv8qqVqv9LMZxv9ouV40zEYmHUjFY2HPx+ RNtOl4Rhftt/phiRs6LC/iA5LewnJeWg46W22+02cAHOwa26bC0HPY7TZ7G2G9dv8EHFdP8Om9YP 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Then they laugh at you. Then they fight you. =20= > Then you win. > Mahatma Ghandi. > Met vriendelijke groeten, Bien =E0 vous, Kind regards, Yves Vindevogel Implements --Apple-Mail-163--997260467 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/enriched; charset=ISO-8859-1 Mail: yves.vindevogel@implements.be - Mobile: +32 (478) 80 82 91 Kempische Steenweg 206 - 3500 Hasselt - Tel-Fax: +32 (11) 43 55 76 Web: http://www.implements.be First they ignore you. Then they laugh at you. Then they fight you.=20 Then you win. Mahatma Ghandi. 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Then they laugh at you. Then they fight you. Then you win. Mahatma Ghandi. --Apple-Mail-164--997260465 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/enriched; charset=US-ASCII Mail: yves.vindevogel@implements.be - Mobile: +32 (478) 80 82 91 Kempische Steenweg 206 - 3500 Hasselt - Tel-Fax: +32 (11) 43 55 76 Web: http://www.implements.be First they ignore you. Then they laugh at you. Then they fight you. Then you win. Mahatma Ghandi. --Apple-Mail-164--997260465-- --Apple-Mail-161--997260469--