Received: from maia.hub.org (unknown [200.46.204.183]) by mail.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AA98B63329F for ; Fri, 12 Feb 2010 15:04:07 -0400 (AST) Received: from mail.postgresql.org ([200.46.204.86]) by maia.hub.org (mx1.hub.org [200.46.204.183]) (amavisd-maia, port 10024) with ESMTP id 05384-03 for ; Fri, 12 Feb 2010 19:03:56 +0000 (UTC) X-Greylist: domain auto-whitelisted by SQLgrey-1.7.6 Received: from ey-out-2122.google.com (ey-out-2122.google.com [74.125.78.27]) by mail.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9B84263285F for ; Fri, 12 Feb 2010 15:03:56 -0400 (AST) Received: by ey-out-2122.google.com with SMTP id 22so59219eye.3 for ; Fri, 12 Feb 2010 11:03:55 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:received:in-reply-to:references :date:message-id:subject:from:to:cc:content-type; bh=/Zyjm/6oD5KNf/UGiJrWTqMMHtx3iXPPE9HVCP4htrw=; b=IOd0k19bZpJEgxRrw4NTNMr5wnpHOUEimcSOmn2FwWm8PLRwXnQWEb2C2R7/8HhlGx 8J07UX65fzGjssNHS3gQI1+3YlKGhIHoBL5aXwFaVCO0Kf15DzXJJI26DU0UJLt2nMRV xtSq0QJo+u7IOtYlbt8uRbtREP3kxkzxWyWDc= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type; b=GOpDt5jg/YOl0Pb7M8/O9eMxinISlaCyAv9n1m0sVtlQTymQkYwRckvL7dhHuR83Cc xEeeCetg4CJ9tgS3lXad0k6PkwyvrStpFMK1A2J7EJGtGwCCq5aRwae86aYg4rAzpXrG jOlrPip+Ik95U6erYjJc7AV3jg3BFUxt9/Bx0= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.216.86.142 with SMTP id w14mr1039925wee.74.1266001434824; Fri, 12 Feb 2010 11:03:54 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: References: <4B74647A.1040002@mansionfamily.plus.com> Date: Fri, 12 Feb 2010 13:03:54 -0600 Message-ID: Subject: Re: Dell PERC H700/H800 From: Dave Crooke To: Scott Marlowe Cc: James Mansion , Matthew Wakeling , pgsql-performance@postgresql.org Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=0016e6dab6dccecf81047f6bed77 X-Virus-Scanned: Maia Mailguard 1.0.1 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-2.598 tagged_above=-10 required=5 tests=BAYES_00=-2.599, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001 X-Spam-Level: X-Archive-Number: 201002/211 X-Sequence-Number: 37632 --0016e6dab6dccecf81047f6bed77 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 I do think it's valid to prevent idiot customers from installing drives that use too much power or run too hot, or desktop drives that don't support fast-fail reads, thus driving up Dell's support load, but it sounds like this is more of a lock-in attempt. This is kind of a dumb move on their part .... most enterprise buyers will buy drives through them anyway for support reasons, and the low end guys who are price sensitive will just take their business elsewhere. I'm not sure who thought this would increase revenue materially. Cheers Dave On Thu, Feb 11, 2010 at 3:55 PM, Scott Marlowe wrote: > On Thu, Feb 11, 2010 at 1:11 PM, James Mansion > wrote: > > Matthew Wakeling wrote: > >> > >> Just a heads up - apparently the more recent Dell RAID controllers will > no > >> longer recognise hard discs that weren't sold through Dell. > >> > >> > >> > http://www.channelregister.co.uk/2010/02/10/dell_perc_11th_gen_qualified_hdds_only/ > >> > >> As one of the comments points out, that kind of makes them no longer > SATA > >> or SAS compatible, and they shouldn't be allowed to use those acronyms > any > >> more. > >> > >> Matthew > >> > > I think that's potentially FUD. Its all about 'Dell qualified drives'. > I > > can't see anything that suggests that Dell will OEM drives and somehow > tag > > them so that the drive must have come from them. Of course they are big > > enough that they could have special BIOS I guess, but I read it that the > > drive types (and presumably revisions thereof) had to be recognised by > the > > controller from a list, which presumably can be reflashed, which is not > > quite saying that if some WD enterprise drive model is 'qualified' then > you > > have to buy it from Dell.. > > > > Do you have any further detail? > > In the post to the dell mailing list ( > > http://lists.us.dell.com/pipermail/linux-poweredge/2010-February/041335.html > ) It was pointed out that the user had installed Seagate ES.2 drives, > which are enterprise class drives that have been around a while and > are kind of the standard SATA enterprise clas drives and are listed so > by Seagate: > > > http://www.seagate.com/www/en-us/products/servers/barracuda_es/barracuda_es.2 > > These drives were marked as BLOCKED and unusable by the system. > > The pdf linked to in the dell forum specifically states that the hard > drives are loaded with a dell specific firmware. The PDF seems > otherwise free of useful information, and is mostly a marketing tool > as near as I can tell. > > -- > Sent via pgsql-performance mailing list (pgsql-performance@postgresql.org) > To make changes to your subscription: > http://www.postgresql.org/mailpref/pgsql-performance > --0016e6dab6dccecf81047f6bed77 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I do think it's valid to prevent idiot customers from installing drives that use too much power or run too hot, or desktop drives that don&#= 39;t support fast-fail reads, thus driving up Dell's support load, but = it sounds like this is more of a lock-in attempt.

This is kind of a dum= b move on their part .... most enterprise buyers will buy drives through th= em anyway for support reasons, and the low end guys who are price sensitive= will just take their business elsewhere. I'm not sure who thought this= would increase revenue materially.

Cheers
Dave

On Thu, Feb 11, 2010 a= t 3:55 PM, Scott Marlowe <scott.marlowe@gmail.com> wrote:
On Thu, Feb 11, 2010 at 1:11 PM, James Mansion
<james@mansionfamily.plu= s.com> wrote:
> Matthew Wakeling wrote:
>>
>> Just a heads up - apparently the more recent Dell RAID controllers= will no
>> longer recognise hard discs that weren't sold through Dell. >>
>>
>> http://www.channelregister.= co.uk/2010/02/10/dell_perc_11th_gen_qualified_hdds_only/
>>
>> As one of the comments points out, that kind of makes them no long= er SATA
>> or SAS compatible, and they shouldn't be allowed to use those = acronyms any
>> more.
>>
>> Matthew
>>
> I think that's potentially FUD. =A0Its all about 'Dell qualifi= ed drives'. =A0I
> can't see anything that suggests that Dell will OEM drives and som= ehow tag
> them so that the drive must have come from them. =A0Of course they are= big
> enough that they could have special BIOS I guess, but I read it that t= he
> drive types (and presumably revisions thereof) had to be recognised by= the
> controller from a list, which presumably can be reflashed, which is no= t
> quite saying that if some WD enterprise drive model is 'qualified&= #39; then you
> have to buy it from Dell..
>
> Do you have any further detail?

In the post to the dell mailing list (
http://lists.us.dell.com/pipermail/linux-po= weredge/2010-February/041335.html
) It was pointed out that the user had installed Seagate ES.2 drives,
which are enterprise class drives that have been around a while and
are kind of the standard SATA enterprise clas drives and are listed so
by Seagate:

http://www.seagate.com/www/en-us/products/= servers/barracuda_es/barracuda_es.2

These drives were marked as BLOCKED and unusable by the system.

The pdf linked to in the dell forum specifically states that the hard
drives are loaded with a dell specific firmware. =A0The PDF seems
otherwise free of useful information, and is mostly a marketing tool
as near as I can tell.

--
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To make changes to your subscription:
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