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From: Bob Ippolito <bob@redivi.com>
Date: Tue, 6 Sep 2005 13:24:18 -0700
To: jonah.harris@gmail.com
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Subject: Re: uuid type for postgres
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On Sep 6, 2005, at 12:57 PM, Jonah H. Harris wrote:

> On 9/6/05, Josh Berkus <josh@agliodbs.com> wrote:
> Mark,
>
> > I suggest that UUID be recommended in place of SERIAL for certain
> > classes of applications, and that it therefore belongs in the core.
> > UUID and SERIAL can be used together (although, once you have a  
> UUID,
> > it may not be useful to also have a SERIAL).
>
> I think that, if you want to push a refactored UUID type for  
> PostgreSQL
> 8.2, that you'd better separate your database design arguments from  
> your
> inclusion arguments.
>
> For example, you might get my agreement that it would be useful to  
> have a
> UUID as a core type; you would *never* get my agreement to  
> recommend using
> UUID to newbies.   I have seen *far* too many abuses of UUIDs in  
> really
> bad database design.   People who use them should be experienced  
> enough to
> know what they're doing.
>
> I agree with Josh on the UUID type, it gets abused far too often  
> and (IMHO) isn't widely enough used to belong in the core.   
> Couldn't you just fix the problem in pguuid rather than write a  
> whole new type?
>

This sounds like a strawman argument.  People abuse a lot of types to  
do a lot of things they shouldn't be doing, adding types to the core  
isn't really going to change that much one way or the other.

If the documentation gives the user a good idea of when to use UUID  
and when not, I think it would be a good addition.  Worst case, it  
could become part of contrib, so at least it ships with PostgreSQL  
with the same license.  The GPL license of pguuid is a show-stopper  
for some (and seems like a silly choice for what it is and who it's  
for).

-bob


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<HTML><BODY style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; -khtml-nbsp-mode: space; =
-khtml-line-break: after-white-space; "><DIV><DIV>On Sep 6, 2005, at =
12:57 PM, Jonah H. Harris wrote:</DIV><BR =
class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"><BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite"><DIV><SPAN =
class=3D"gmail_quote">On 9/6/05, <B class=3D"gmail_sendername">Josh =
Berkus</B> &lt;<A =
href=3D"mailto:josh@agliodbs.com">josh@agliodbs.com</A>&gt; =
wrote:</SPAN><BLOCKQUOTE class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"border-left: 1px =
solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: =
1ex;"> Mark,<BR><BR>&gt; I suggest that UUID be recommended in place of =
SERIAL for certain<BR>&gt; classes of applications, and that it =
therefore belongs in the core.<BR>&gt; UUID and SERIAL can be used =
together (although, once you have a UUID, <BR>&gt; it may not be useful =
to also have a SERIAL).<BR><BR>I think that, if you want to push a =
refactored UUID type for PostgreSQL<BR>8.2, that you'd better separate =
your database design arguments from your<BR>inclusion arguments. =
<BR><BR>For example, you might get my agreement that it would be useful =
to have a<BR>UUID as a core type; you would *never* get my agreement to =
recommend using<BR>UUID to newbies.=A0=A0 I have seen *far* too many =
abuses of UUIDs in really <BR>bad database design.=A0=A0 People who use =
them should be experienced enough to<BR>know what they're =
doing.<BR><BR></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV><BLOCKQUOTE =
type=3D"cite">I agree with Josh on the UUID type, it gets abused far too =
often and (IMHO) isn't widely enough used to belong in the core.=A0 =
Couldn't you just fix the problem in pguuid rather than write a whole =
new type?<BR style=3D""></BLOCKQUOTE><BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite"><BR =
class=3D"khtml-block-placeholder"></BLOCKQUOTE><BR><DIV>This sounds like =
a strawman argument.=A0 People abuse a lot of types to do a lot of =
things they shouldn't be doing, adding types to the core isn't really =
going to change that much one way or the other.</DIV><DIV><BR =
class=3D"khtml-block-placeholder"></DIV><DIV>If the documentation gives =
the user a good idea of when to use UUID and when not, I think it would =
be a good addition.=A0 Worst case, it could become part of contrib, so =
at least it ships with PostgreSQL with the same license.=A0 The GPL =
license of pguuid is a show-stopper for some (and seems like a silly =
choice for what it is and who it's =
for).</DIV><BR><DIV>-bob</DIV><DIV><BR =
class=3D"khtml-block-placeholder"></DIV></BODY></HTML>=

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