Message-ID: <433966C1.80008@brandywine.com>
Date: Tue, 27 Sep 2005 11:35:29 -0400
From: Daryl Richter <daryl@brandywine.com>
Reply-To: daryl@brandywine.com
Organization: Brandywine Asset Management
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To: Anthony Molinaro <amolinaro@wgen.net>
Cc: pgsql-sql@postgresql.org
Subject: Re: how to do 'deep queries'?
References: <3C6C2B281FD3E74C9F7C9D5B1EDA4582182583@wgexch01.wgenhq.net>
In-Reply-To: <3C6C2B281FD3E74C9F7C9D5B1EDA4582182583@wgexch01.wgenhq.net>
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Anthony Molinaro wrote:
 > Daryl,
 >
 >
 >>Whether you feel that is unnecessary or not, it *is* the ANSI Standard
 >
 >
 >>and is thus, by definition, "how queries should be written."
 >
 >
 > I disagree 100%.  Oracle and db2 introduced window functions years
 > before
 > Ansi added them. Should we not have used them? It absurd to avoid using
 > a feature cuz it's not ansi.
 >

Of course it would be absurd, I have not suggested otherwise.  Joins are 
not a *new* feature.

 > Honestly, Don't be a slave to ansi, you miss out on all the great
 > vendor specific functionality *that you're already paying for*
 >
 >
 >>it was added to make the *intention* of the query clearer.
 >
 >
 > More clearer to whom?
 >
 > Certainly not developers who have been working for many years
 > using the old syntax.
 >
 > The intention of the old syntax is perfect. Realize that the problem is
 > not the old syntax, the problem is the watered down database field
 > today.
 > I see this more and more with each interview I conduct looking
 > for dba's and developers.
 >

I generally agree with your assessment of the state of database 
knowledge (particularly re developers).  It is, however, the reality we 
live in.

[snipped nostalgia and back-patting]

 > I've never worked in a place that used ANSI only syntax and I've never
 > had a problem with clarity nor any developers I've worked with.
 > So, I don't at all get what you're saying...

 > Old style is short and sweet and perfect.
 > Ansi dumbed it down, that's the bottom line.
 > And for people who've been developing for sometime,
 > It's wholly unnecessary.
 >

Well, perhaps you will one day and a developer will hose your server 
with a "accidental" cross join and then you will understand.

But hopefully not.  ;)

 > Regards,
 >   Anthony
 >

[rest snipped]

-- 
Daryl
Director of Technology

((         Brandywine Asset Management          )
  ( "Expanding the Science of Global Investing"  )
  (          http://www.brandywine.com           ))