Received: from malur.postgresql.org ([217.196.149.56]) by arkaria.postgresql.org with esmtps (TLS1.3:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1nQpvF-0006wN-Ta for pgsql-sql@arkaria.postgresql.org; Sun, 06 Mar 2022 12:23:38 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=malur.postgresql.org) by malur.postgresql.org with esmtp (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1nQpvC-0002TH-Rl for pgsql-sql@arkaria.postgresql.org; Sun, 06 Mar 2022 12:23:34 +0000 Received: from makus.postgresql.org ([2001:4800:3e1:1::229]) by malur.postgresql.org with esmtps (TLS1.3:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1nQpvC-0002T8-6i for pgsql-sql@lists.postgresql.org; Sun, 06 Mar 2022 12:23:34 +0000 Received: from mout.perfora.net ([74.208.4.197]) by makus.postgresql.org with esmtps (TLS1.3:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1nQpv9-0002NP-3B for pgsql-sql@lists.postgresql.org; Sun, 06 Mar 2022 12:23:32 +0000 Received: from smtpclient.apple ([98.169.214.209]) by mrelay.perfora.net (mreueus004 [74.208.5.2]) with ESMTPSA (Nemesis) id 1M5fxm-1nY0eN0jco-007Chm; Sun, 06 Mar 2022 13:23:25 +0100 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=Apple-Mail-DB42FE92-73FC-43F0-B933-E03CE8A0CB2A Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: "Michaeldba@sqlexec.com" Mime-Version: 1.0 (1.0) Subject: Re: Bug in tables column data in postgres database Date: Sun, 6 Mar 2022 07:23:23 -0500 Message-Id: References: Cc: Steve Midgley , Erik Brandsberg , "David G. Johnston" , "Voillequin, Jean-Marc" , pgsql-sql In-Reply-To: To: Sarita Sharma X-Mailer: iPad Mail (18F72) X-Provags-ID: V03:K1:raKlmDThXNoWIawuo4OdB23n/yG5Wi91C9+DagmmOEVGMs1O9WL AV0bhGeykKq4NQK4uEbp2iTjrR/oN5gY0AP5hg+NSQFj9xz/1Yt1P8tQY+A/rEf3sCkdayD OdD338lqLEXHXdwUHy3E0n7wO54UhZku8EeDz/Bbm2ekOHRmqidMtfnJh8zmLw+AcN2roCH g802bOs7wl2k3cMjPxlcA== X-Spam-Flag: NO X-UI-Out-Filterresults: notjunk:1;V03:K0:5VbABpj6iwU=:ZAn3r7zBdNYMHYUUS0UjXQ RCaxCm4fg1gEKLjex0RxDnU20RKNNEwpKlA6gWl6ZIT6ywY6lVdwXVdEnr+LY5amO46N0lWso 811nBlyoT+v80w/ETMVEtekzagaeBFZ1lADz7Flt2HXMh7/NaApAkv0A8Yj2Taj846aC0ZpkA r/ZQDf/W+U/sTK9VucbmiZZz7hB6/yrmHIGwsnwUNwHQxsbrIabX4m9SdG26KHGn6XfLidsub DwnqBs56ltN20ALAGOwuYn9MRyn3zdktu3xxIc4GEQH9OldKgbq1RXpN60S9U1Bb04vKFMQyd LxIULa2jXalqz+N/x/aKl8lSCuEDGE6msUcGGhBweZku2eozHDEJ4zjnSWT41YzgK2iGI2jcq ALKCAjdVqz49WCqytiRq/ZxWUVsLwBEhfXKrjTUty5zB/h7Rb86Cc8YNdWnhyVH/bAHa+jDUy r+MHRkVx1vVCPJ66sqrUlaP6gHSWSQ+khlfkHX1Tjx9oVYAVXPig+s1gfR9HsQD38+wG+Now0 Zl5pcwKqOC8QBZuGCa07w+T6+GuCWn4d4BVi7ZcGJr8M8yA8NUwL+XBrLhg7PH4qJGsu+r+f6 E2y4MH0rFNfEv3LSA+MwsKwTgsioBFVyhW8L0BdkpQpW55xXAmVKXmWM5CMtWeUBXAeApWvAC xKqha8DV4W7yflwPNFcS1z5s+INSoydTrrkGGzA+y6flK+V7Oc5uvAMMuFY2n7fwbBV1mu69K tbmMywluwKECEzrl List-Id: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Post: List-Owner: List-Archive: Archived-At: Precedence: bulk --Apple-Mail-DB42FE92-73FC-43F0-B933-E03CE8A0CB2A Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable You are not doing what we have asked you to do. I asked you to send me the ddl for the table including any triggers and also= asked you to turn on debugging to capture dml changes (log_statement=3Dmod= ) and you didn=E2=80=99t do it. You are not cooperating with all the folks that tried to help you. Sent from my iPad > On Mar 5, 2022, at 6:14 PM, Sarita Sharma = wrote: >=20 > =EF=BB=BF > Hello Team, > I don't understand why Java layer is involved here. If data is saved in da= tabase table and with a select query wherever result will come that only get= ting fetched from java layers as a result set. > =20 > If toggling behaviour is observed by me in tables column of postgres datab= ase then how Java layer involvement comes. >=20 > At last my point of view is: > Here I have reported something that seems to a bug as I observe some toggl= ing behaviour . Just as a user only I have reported. And its all upto postre= s db team to take it into consideration or not instead of pointing out java l= ayers. >=20 > Upto this much responses I got I didn't got satisfied reply. >=20 >=20 > Thankyou >=20 >=20 >=20 >> On Fri, 4 Mar 2022, 20:22 Steve Midgley, wrote: >>=20 >>=20 >>> On Fri, Mar 4, 2022, 6:33 AM Erik Brandsberg wro= te: >>> As others have said, it is nearly impossible for postgres to be usable i= n any environment with the bug you reported, and yet it is. It is 99.9999 %= likely the bug is somewhere else. You have provided no reproduction steps a= s well, so no action could even be taken if it were an issue. This is not a= customer support channel with Salad as well. If you wish to have that type= of support, you may wish to contact one of the many companies that provide s= upport for postgresql. >>>=20 >>>> On Fri, Mar 4, 2022, 9:17 AM Sarita Sharma wrote: >>>> Hello Team, >>>> I am getting a genuine defect that from postgres database as I am worki= ng for a well recognised organization and I am only handling coding from lay= ers that includes spring boot, Jpa configuration for database connectivity a= nd postgres as database. >>>> The toggling issue I told , I have analysed it many times and I only co= rrecting data whenever my data got toggle like I have already explained. >>>> If you find it a genuine issue , you can take it under consideration. >>>> As a employee I have already informed this issue to my senior colleague= . >>>>=20 >>>> Thanks and Regards, >>>> Sarita >>>>=20 >>>>> On Fri, 4 Mar 2022, 01:33 Steve Midgley, wrote: >>>>>=20 >>>>>=20 >>>>>> On Thu, Mar 3, 2022 at 11:27 AM David G. Johnston wrote: >>>>>>> On Thu, Mar 3, 2022 at 12:13 PM Sarita Sharma wrote: >>>>>>=20 >>>>>>> I am working as a Java developer and for backend database I am using= postgres database. I am generating this tables using entity classes of Java= and Jpa configuration to handling database connectivity and table creation.= =20 >>>>>>> I am finding this toggling issue on my day to day work activity . I a= m still working with same situation. And I only have to correct data wheneve= r its value keeps changing automatically. >>>>>>> Please take my concern . >>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>=20 >>>>>> You are going to have to produce a self-contained example program (an= d database schema) that demonstrates the issue if you want to have any hope o= f having it solved. Once you've done that, figuring out which piece of soft= ware is "buggy" should become possible. Until you can manage that, handing o= ff the problem to someone to solve is not going to work. >>>>>> David J. >>>>>=20 >>>>> Ditto this point, and to say that in my experience with databases in g= eneral and postgres specifically, I've never even heard of this type of prob= lem manifesting, or similar to like it.=20 >>>>>=20 >>>>> Whereas, I've personally encountered this type of unexpected "toggling= " of data in the ORM or other language-specific layers many, many times. So j= ust from a parsimony perspective, it's wise to look at and instrument your j= ava stack to find the problem: as it is almost certain that this type of pro= blem is in those layers. If it isn't there, it could be in some kind of busi= ness logic code inside stored procedures in your postgres environment of cou= rse -- that's also a very viable path of inquiry. But the idea that postgres= itself is toggling your data is so improbable, that you should discount it i= n your analysis. It's more likely you have flaky ram or a motherboard creati= ng the issue (and those are also highly unlikely candidates for this problem= ). >>>>> Steve >>=20 >>=20 >> I would add a little to this point. Whether it is postgres or it isn't, t= he steps to debug are the same. The easiest first step is to instrument your= Java layer with something like New Relic and to start capturing your postgr= es transaction log and feeding it to to an analysis environment of some kind= .=20 >>=20 >> Then start filtering for activity that will show changes to the data in q= uestion. We all are confident this is not postgres core. But I am even more c= onfident it is not postgres core doing this silently with no evidence in the= transaction log. So look for activity in New Relic and pg transactions that= will show you when this is happening. It should be easier to identify the i= ssue then.=20 >>=20 >> I also on occasion work for well recognized companies - and I see spectac= ular errors in those development processes. The difference is that they have= extensive quality processes to catch issues before they go to production. I= deally you can also draw on those resources to help you here.=20 >>=20 >> Simplify and instrument your environment. Use analytic tools. Develop ste= ps to reproduce (and steps where the problem won't manifest. Let that guide y= our problem identification. Seek help internally from those with expertise o= f your product, the code, and the systems.=20 >>=20 >> Steve=20 --Apple-Mail-DB42FE92-73FC-43F0-B933-E03CE8A0CB2A Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable You are not doing what we have asked you to= do.

I asked you to send me the ddl for the table including any= triggers and also asked you to turn on debugging to capture dml  chang= es (log_statement=3Dmod) and you didn=E2=80=99t do it.

<= div>You are not cooperating with all the folks that tried to help you.
Sent from my iPad

On Mar 5, 2022, at 6:14 PM, Sarita Sharma <saritakumarisharm= a61@gmail.com> wrote:

=EF=BB=BF
Hello Team,
I d= on't understand why Java layer is involved here. If data is saved in databas= e table and with a select query wherever result will come that only getting f= etched from java layers as a result set.
 
=
If toggling behaviour is observed by me in tables column o= f postgres database then how Java layer involvement comes.

At last my point of view is:
Here I have reported something that seems to a bug as I observe so= me toggling behaviour . Just as a user only I have reported. And its all upt= o postres db team to take it into consideration or not instead of pointing o= ut java layers.

Upto this= much responses I got I didn't got satisfied reply.
<= br>

Thankyou



On Fri, 4 Mar 2022, 20:22 St= eve Midgley, <science@misuse.org> wrote:

On Fri= , Mar 4, 2022, 6:33 AM Erik Brandsberg <erik@heimdalldata.com> w= rote:
As others hav= e said, it is nearly impossible for postgres to be usable in any environment= with the bug you reported, and yet it is.  It is 99.9999 % likely the b= ug is somewhere else. You have provided no reproduction steps as well, so no= action could even be taken if it were an issue.  This is not a custome= r support channel with Salad as well.  If you wish to have that type of= support, you may wish to contact one of the many companies that provide sup= port for postgresql.

On Fri, Mar 4, 2022, 9:17 AM Sarita Sharma <saritakumarisharma61@gmail.com> wrote:
Hello Team,
I am get= ting a genuine defect that from postgres database as I am working for a well= recognised organization and I am only handling coding from layers that incl= udes spring boot, Jpa configuration for database connectivity and postgres a= s database.
The toggling issue I told , I have analys= ed it many times and I only correcting data whenever my data got toggle like= I have already explained.
If you find it a genuine i= ssue , you can take it under consideration.
As a empl= oyee I have already informed this issue to my senior colleague.

Thanks and Regards,
Sarita

On Fri, 4 Mar 2022, 01:33 Steve Midgley, <science@misuse.org> wrote:


On Thu, Mar 3, 2022 at 11:27 AM Dav= id G. Johnston <david.g.johnston@= gmail.com> wrote:
On= Thu, Mar 3, 2022 at 12:13 PM Sarita Sharma <saritakumarisharma61@gmail.com> wrote:
I am working as a Java developer and= for backend database I am using postgres database. I am generating this tab= les using entity classes of Java and Jpa configuration to handling database c= onnectivity and table creation. 
I am finding th= is toggling issue on my day to day work activity . I am still working with s= ame situation. And I only have to correct data whenever its value  keep= s changing automatically.
Please take my concern .


You are going to have to produce a s= elf-contained example program (and database schema) that demonstrates the is= sue if you want to have any hope of having it solved.  Once you've done= that, figuring out which piece of software is "buggy" should become possibl= e.  Until you can manage that, handing off the problem to someone to so= lve is not going to work.
David J= .

Ditto this point, and to= say that in my experience with databases in general and postgres specifical= ly, I've never even heard of this type of problem manifesting, or similar to= like it. 

Whereas, I've personally encountere= d this type of unexpected "toggling" of data in the ORM or other language-sp= ecific layers many, many times. So just from a parsimony perspective, it's w= ise to look at and instrument your java stack to find the problem: as it is a= lmost certain that this type of problem is in those layers. If it isn't ther= e, it could be in some kind of business logic code inside stored procedures i= n your postgres environment of course -- that's also a very viable path of i= nquiry. But the idea that postgres itself is toggling your data is so improb= able, that you should discount it in your analysis. It's more likely you hav= e flaky ram or a motherboard creating the issue (and those are also highly u= nlikely candidates for this problem).
Steve
=
I would add a little to this point. Whether it i= s postgres or it isn't, the steps to debug are the same. The easiest first s= tep is to instrument your Java layer with something like New Relic and to st= art capturing your postgres transaction log and feeding it to to an analysis= environment of some kind. 

Then start filtering for activity that will show changes to the data i= n question. We all are confident this is not postgres core. But I am even mo= re confident it is not postgres core doing this silently with no evidence in= the transaction log. So look for activity in New Relic and pg transactions t= hat will show you when this is happening. It should be easier to identify th= e issue then. 

I als= o on occasion work for well recognized companies - and I see spectacular err= ors in those development processes. The difference is that they have extensi= ve quality processes to catch issues before they go to production. Ideally y= ou can also draw on those resources to help you here. 

Simplify and instrument your environment.= Use analytic tools. Develop steps to reproduce (and steps where the problem= won't manifest. Let that guide your problem identification. Seek help inter= nally from those with expertise of your product, the code, and the systems.&= nbsp;

Steve 
= --Apple-Mail-DB42FE92-73FC-43F0-B933-E03CE8A0CB2A--