Subject: Re: Pgday italy
To: pgsql-women@lists.postgresql.org
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From: =?UTF-8?Q?Caitr=c3=adona_Smith?= <kit@hypostasis.com>
Message-ID: <3e09da1c-ff2e-3f69-d2e5-3f7c7d4b4b2c@hypostasis.com>
Date: Thu, 11 Apr 2019 16:10:31 +0200
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Hi All

I really like the original wording. "Man the inbox" may not be a phrase 
I've encountered but "man the conference booth" is precisely the common 
usage that needs to be watched for. The precise problem is that 'man' is 
usually a replacement for 'person' on the assumption that all persons 
are men. Whether that is in terms of work being done or time attached to 
the doing.

Folks, people, you all, etc. don't necessarily fit in all cases where 
one needs to replace 'man' or 'men' but they are good places to start 
when thinking about alternative phrases. People hours isn't really 
correct, but person hours is, for example. One may not man the inbox, 
but one can certainly check or monitor or manage it. Staffing the booth 
would be preferable to manning it. And the list of phrases as 
alternatives to 'guys' is also pretty important.

regards

-k

Cait


Den 2019-04-11 kl. 15:36, skrev Lætitia Avrot:
> Hi Boriss,
>
>
>     Yesterday back from holidays and still catching up with emails,
>     so, probably
>     this feedback is too late, but anyway... |Great proposal Lætitia.
>     I have only
>     one small change that can make a difference in the appreciation:
>
>
>     Lætitia Avrot wrote on 07.04.19 12:23:
>     [...]
>     >>     /Man: As a synonym for work — as in “man hours,” “man the
>     inbox,” “man the
>     >>     conference booth,” — this is unnecessarily gendered
>     language. Try using
>     >>     work instead. More inclusive: Folks, people, you all,
>     y’all, teammates
>
>     Is the world "Man" the one who needs to be avoided? or do we need
>     to avoid "Man
>     as a synonym for work"?
>
>     I believe is the second case, so, to prevent confusion, move the ':'
>
>     "Man" as a synonym for work: as in "man hours,"...  etc....
>
>     Also, I would keep the explanation up to "Try using work instead",
>     as the more
>     inclusive alternatives don't really work: "people hours", "folk
>     the inbox"...
>
>     By the way, never heard about "man the inbox" or "man the
>     conference booth"...
>     is that really referring to men, or to management?
>
>
> Unfortunately too late, but I'll change the source file, so next time 
> we'll have it.
>
> Have a nice day,
>
> Lætitia

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    <p>Hi All</p>
    <p>I really like the original wording. "Man the inbox" may not be a
      phrase I've encountered but "man the conference booth" is
      precisely the common usage that needs to be watched for. The
      precise problem is that 'man' is usually a replacement for
      'person' on the assumption that all persons are men. Whether that
      is in terms of work being done or time attached to the doing. <br>
    </p>
    <p>Folks, people, you all, etc. don't necessarily fit in all cases
      where one needs to replace 'man' or 'men' but they are good places
      to start when thinking about alternative phrases. People hours
      isn't really correct, but person hours is, for example. One may
      not man the inbox, but one can certainly check or monitor or
      manage it. Staffing the booth would be preferable to manning it.
      And the list of phrases as alternatives to 'guys' is also pretty
      important.</p>
    <p>regards<br>
    </p>
    <p>-k</p>
    <p>Cait</p>
    <p><br>
    </p>
    <div class="moz-cite-prefix">Den 2019-04-11 kl. 15:36, skrev Lætitia
      Avrot:<br>
    </div>
    <blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:CAB_COdiaONM23GFtnsuptGpEgzzOfwmmvS-pkjidKt4OF4zKnA@mail.gmail.com">
      <meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8">
      <div dir="ltr">
        <div dir="ltr">Hi Boriss,</div>
        <br>
        <div class="gmail_quote">
          <blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px
            0.8ex;border-left:1px solid
            rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><br>
            Yesterday back from holidays and still catching up with
            emails, so, probably <br>
            this feedback is too late, but anyway... |Great proposal
            Lætitia. I have only <br>
            one small change that can make a difference in the
            appreciation:<br>
            <br>
            <br>
            Lætitia Avrot wrote on 07.04.19 12:23:<br>
            [...]<br>
            &gt;&gt;     /Man: As a synonym for work — as in “man
            hours,” “man the inbox,” “man the<br>
            &gt;&gt;     conference booth,” — this is unnecessarily
            gendered language. Try using<br>
            &gt;&gt;     work instead. More inclusive: Folks, people,
            you all, y’all, teammates<br>
            <br>
            Is the world "Man" the one who needs to be avoided? or do we
            need to avoid "Man <br>
            as a synonym for work"?<br>
            <br>
            I believe is the second case, so, to prevent confusion, move
            the ':'<br>
            <br>
            "Man" as a synonym for work: as in "man hours,"...  etc....<br>
            <br>
            Also, I would keep the explanation up to "Try using work
            instead", as the more <br>
            inclusive alternatives don't really work: "people hours",
            "folk the inbox"...<br>
            <br>
            By the way, never heard about "man the inbox" or "man the
            conference booth"... <br>
            is that really referring to men, or to management?<br>
            <br>
          </blockquote>
          <div><br>
          </div>
          <div>Unfortunately too late, but I'll change the source file,
            so next time we'll have it.</div>
          <div><br>
          </div>
          <div>Have a nice day,</div>
          <div><br>
          </div>
          <div>Lætitia </div>
        </div>
      </div>
    </blockquote>
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