Received: from malur.postgresql.org ([217.196.149.56]) by arkaria.postgresql.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.89) (envelope-from ) id 1fAipM-00016p-N2 for pgsql-women@arkaria.postgresql.org; Mon, 23 Apr 2018 21:16:48 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=malur.postgresql.org) by malur.postgresql.org with esmtp (Exim 4.89) (envelope-from ) id 1fAipL-00076n-KN for pgsql-women@arkaria.postgresql.org; Mon, 23 Apr 2018 21:16:47 +0000 Received: from magus.postgresql.org ([2a02:c0:301:0:ffff::29]) by malur.postgresql.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.89) (envelope-from ) id 1fAipL-00076e-FZ for pgsql-women@lists.postgresql.org; Mon, 23 Apr 2018 21:16:47 +0000 Received: from c.mail.sonic.net ([64.142.111.80]) by magus.postgresql.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.89) (envelope-from ) id 1fAipD-0000us-B4 for pgsql-women@lists.postgresql.org; Mon, 23 Apr 2018 21:16:46 +0000 Received: from [172.24.7.142] ([192.150.10.197]) (authenticated bits=0) by c.mail.sonic.net (8.15.1/8.15.1) with ESMTPSA id w3NLGEjM018628 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128 verify=NOT); Mon, 23 Apr 2018 14:16:14 -0700 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=Apple-Mail-0BED1049-CB97-4C82-B0F0-4D492593ABBC Mime-Version: 1.0 (1.0) Subject: Re: What we need to do From: Elein X-Mailer: iPhone Mail (15E216) In-Reply-To: Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2018 14:16:12 -0700 Cc: Debra Cerda , Valeria Kaplan , Boriss Mejias , pgsql-women@lists.postgresql.org Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <7F9C4EAB-0043-4866-B450-9796E264EC71@varlena.com> References: <38ee76b5-8bf5-9171-70de-f926b1e618c9@gmail.com> To: =?utf-8?Q?L=C3=A6titia_Avrot?= X-Sonic-CAuth: UmFuZG9tSVbwe5VB27LkJmsNY/7yJMsHsl3vgk29Ha8rvvWLobhGneg4ZVbcK3HfCIBYH+WWvTF7yyVoNsxafXGMVgU0HSRS X-Sonic-ID: C;BKarjTtH6BGaSVDNXaHR5A== M;BDcQjjtH6BGaSVDNXaHR5A== X-Spam-Flag: No X-Sonic-Spam-Details: 0.0/5.0 by cerberusd List-Id: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Post: List-Owner: List-Archive: Precedence: bulk --Apple-Mail-0BED1049-CB97-4C82-B0F0-4D492593ABBC Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Please don=E2=80=99t feel sorry for me. I am a veteran of the feminist wars.= I could have used a little tlc at the time but I got it elsewhere.=20 Our ideas are not quite different. Space for women in postgres. And I have s= aid I will support the mailing list. And of course I belong.=20 I just wanted you all to know you are not the first ones and add a little wa= rning about the backlash.=20 Lessons learned: insist on being part of the committee discussions. Broadcas= t or share vicious personal emails or attacks. (I deleted mine and have regr= etted it. ) Carry on Elein Mustain elein@varlena.com 510-637-9106 > On Apr 23, 2018, at 7:59 AM, L=C3=A6titia Avrot = wrote: >=20 > Hi Elein,=20 >=20 >>=20 >> A little history. I had tried to create a postgres-women mailing list sev= eral years ago. I wanted it to be women only, a la systers, and once establi= shed possibly opening to anyone. I felt the time to forge our space was impo= rtant.=20 >>=20 >> I was not included on most mail in the discussions with the committee. An= d so was prevented from arguing my case. I also received vicious personal em= ails.=20 >>=20 >> I have worked as a woman in tech for 30+ years. I have worked on producti= zed and open source postgres since 1992. =20 >>=20 >> I have happily worked with many postgres men. But the vitriol about our l= ist was beyond the pale.=20 >>=20 >> With all that said, carry on in your best way and I will support you.=20 >>=20 >> Elein Mustain >> elein@varlena.com >> 510-637-9106 >=20 >=20 >=20 > I can't find words to tell you how sorry I am for what you have to live th= rough. My vision when beginning postgres women is quite different but I will= always find time to read and hear other's point of view. You're, of course,= welcome to our group and I'd like to chat with you to understand better you= r vision.=20 >=20 > Have a nice day,=20 >=20 > L=C3=A6titia=20 >>=20 --Apple-Mail-0BED1049-CB97-4C82-B0F0-4D492593ABBC Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Please don=E2=80=99t feel so= rry for me. I am a veteran of the feminist wars. I could have used a little t= lc at the time but I got it elsewhere. 

Our ideas ar= e not quite different. Space for women in postgres. And I have said I will s= upport the mailing list. And of course I belong. 

<= div>I just wanted you all to know you are not the first ones and add a littl= e warning about the backlash. 

Lessons learned= : insist on being part of the committee discussions. Broadcast or share vici= ous personal emails or attacks. (I deleted mine and have regretted it. )

Carry on

= Elein Mustain
510-637-9106

On Apr 23, 2018, at 7:59 AM,= L=C3=A6titia Avrot <laetitia= .avrot@gmail.com> wrote:

=
Hi Elein, 

=

A little history. I had tried to create a postgres-women mail= ing list several years ago. I wanted it to be women only, a la systers, and o= nce established possibly opening to anyone. I felt the time to forge our spa= ce was important. 

I was not included on most mail i= n the discussions with the committee. And so was prevented from arguing my c= ase. I also received vicious personal emails. 

I have worked as a woman in tech for 30+ years. I have worked on productize= d and open source postgres since 1992.  

I hav= e happily worked with many postgres men. But the vitriol about our list was b= eyond the pale. 

With all that said, carry on i= n your best way and I will support you. 

Elein Mustain
=
510-637-9106

<= /div>
I can't find words to tell you how sorry I am for wha= t you have to live through. My vision when beginning postgres women is quite= different but I will always find time to read and hear other's point of vie= w. You're, of course, welcome to our group and I'd like to chat with you to u= nderstand better your vision. 

Have a nice day, 

L=C3=A6titia 

<= /blockquote>
= --Apple-Mail-0BED1049-CB97-4C82-B0F0-4D492593ABBC--