Received: from malur.postgresql.org ([217.196.149.56]) by arkaria.postgresql.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.89) (envelope-from ) id 1f6g6C-00067H-Hm for pgsql-women@arkaria.postgresql.org; Thu, 12 Apr 2018 17:33:28 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=malur.postgresql.org) by malur.postgresql.org with esmtp (Exim 4.89) (envelope-from ) id 1f6g6B-0002p8-Mo for pgsql-women@arkaria.postgresql.org; Thu, 12 Apr 2018 17:33:27 +0000 Received: from magus.postgresql.org ([2a02:c0:301:0:ffff::29]) by malur.postgresql.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.89) (envelope-from ) id 1f6g6B-0002oz-74 for pgsql-women@lists.postgresql.org; Thu, 12 Apr 2018 17:33:27 +0000 Received: from mail-wm0-x235.google.com ([2a00:1450:400c:c09::235]) by magus.postgresql.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:256) (Exim 4.89) (envelope-from ) id 1f6g67-0006Pf-Sg for pgsql-women@lists.postgresql.org; Thu, 12 Apr 2018 17:33:26 +0000 Received: by mail-wm0-x235.google.com with SMTP id x4so10886395wmh.5 for ; Thu, 12 Apr 2018 10:33:23 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=postgresql.us; s=postgresql.us; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=oyvUyZd9dBhuTKpYDCUgzPqg9jPW3saZvJbhPqCpbMk=; b=fyhgDhbRMRULatcLscAsvXpxKlaGAx0ZGm2r4ZMGLRtGAum3gC5JxyY0Q1kzZm66Gj 48VzpxGrT59WIMFHCxOF6vsqF92TzYWbDuwEeSZpvrErvVfDNyTeUVkCJVDjfd1SQlgF ukRvyahhCOBzWFCxuUIuBZn8Ozvpb0ijE2NvQ= X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=oyvUyZd9dBhuTKpYDCUgzPqg9jPW3saZvJbhPqCpbMk=; b=nf4kBQSCoPvVtVSK0rNXWQzvHIVjt0yog6IG+YkHfwm+xkhi5w5BP8FKNzAite9oA0 +Y0Er16jJBkhN9ArIby5IQQt49G+zM1/At10BN6MpJdyG+CNMkHGjfLZJbw4muxOvyH2 YkmfiFvnc5PVlVq98+Q3kU+PcgXQcjBvMm2HaFvsoNngJqtHnnpW/aOeHUzEWt5dMgKi iYQ/Z7ZhrQqRNJkfKPCs4lpIuOIjPWXiSi7eDMOYBzqUbIguSY0p0CQuEISTTMz4UCAY dYBF5WqPqaKr4U32vbH+CgSfFrP/rDM66b6nMILjhsSDBRX3y7PMeN2cWbQ/xJM/IixB RCmA== X-Gm-Message-State: ALQs6tAHpugrbnxyMHyNCHI5245cmtj1sl4rwdawRAIFM9iWQ+LAy6q8 3pClJagY8nvWwJr/XMH38oPuTqh7m+C1mz1YFBVwtw== X-Google-Smtp-Source: AIpwx49HvF00rD1gj09PrMZfuHFETik7MUB2bOf7s0dbKJN8zt9qm3/acveGkhR+JXmoiEQ1OKtLEQ+wnHdPBUTf0lI= X-Received: by 10.28.106.1 with SMTP id f1mr1481717wmc.59.1523554401374; Thu, 12 Apr 2018 10:33:21 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <38ee76b5-8bf5-9171-70de-f926b1e618c9@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: From: Debra Cerda Date: Thu, 12 Apr 2018 17:33:10 +0000 Message-ID: Subject: Re: What we need to do To: Valeria Kaplan Cc: Boriss Mejias , =?UTF-8?Q?L=C3=A6titia_Avrot?= , pgsql-women@lists.postgresql.org Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="089e082ce80ce3e6070569aa26ca" List-Id: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Post: List-Owner: List-Archive: Precedence: bulk --089e082ce80ce3e6070569aa26ca Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Thu, Apr 12, 2018 at 10:51 AM Valeria Kaplan wrote: > Agree with L=C3=A6titia, > It doesn't matter what sex you are or feel that you belong to, everyone > should feel welcomed in our group and activities. In my opinion, excludin= g > men in any way would be contra-productive. As if to say, "you are not a > woman - you can't contribute" or "you will be too pushy". Those are the > exact assumptions we are striving to break, no? > > another ++ to: Anyone (men or women) that want to force their vision to > our group should be explained that it's not the way we work. > > +1 Please note these scenarios were mostly observations and not my beliefs. Indeed, most of my professional mentors have been men. It=E2=80=99s wonderful and humbling to have past male colleagues reach out= and ask for my advice and help in diversifying their workforce, or building up their female staff through female centric professional organizations. Paying it forward however I can. > On Thu, Apr 12, 2018 at 12:48 PM, L=C3=A6titia Avrot > wrote: > >> Hi Boriss >> >> >>> I think excluding men from certain activities can be positive in the >>> goal of making women feel welcomed. For instance: Women-only IRC/Slack >>> channels can be a good thing. Women-only Hackathon can also help in mak= ing >>> women feel welcomed. >>> >>> >> I strongly disagree. I want everyone to feel welcome, whatever their >> gender is. If you start creating little worlds without men, first you >> exclude people and that's a negative message to give and then it's total= ly >> artificial as our world is populated with both men and women. So if we f= eel >> there is a problem with with women representation in our community, we n= eed >> to find a solution together. Men and women both have brain, so they can >> both come with creative ideas. >> >> Cheers, >> >> L=C3=A6titia >> > > --089e082ce80ce3e6070569aa26ca Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

On Thu, Apr 12, 2018 = at 10:51 AM Valeria Kaplan <vk@datae= gret.com> wrote:
Agree = with=C2=A0L=C3=A6titia,
It doesn't matter what sex you are or feel that y= ou belong to, everyone should feel welcomed in our group and activities. In= my opinion, excluding men in any way would be contra-productive. As if to = say, "you are not a woman - you can't contribute" or "yo= u will be too pushy". Those are the exact assumptions=C2=A0we are stri= ving to break, no?
= =C2=A0
another ++ to: Anyone (men or women) that want to force their visi= on to our group should be explained that it's not the way we work.
=


+1

Please note these scenari= os were mostly observations and not my beliefs. Indeed, most of my professi= onal mentors have been men.

=C2=A0It=E2=80=99s wonderful and humbling to have past male colleagues = reach out and ask for my advice and help in diversifying their workforce, o= r building up their female staff through female centric professional organi= zations. Paying it forward however I can.=C2=A0

=


On Thu, Apr 12, 2018= at 12:48 PM, L=C3=A6titia Avrot <laetitia.avrot@gmail.com> wrote= :
Hi Boriss


I think excluding men from certain activities can be positive in the goal o= f making women feel welcomed. For instance: Women-only IRC/Slack channels c= an be a good thing. Women-only Hackathon can also help in making women feel= welcomed.


I strongly disagree. I = want everyone to feel welcome, whatever their gender is. If you start creat= ing little worlds without men, first you exclude people and that's a ne= gative message to give and then it's totally artificial as our world is= populated with both men and women. So if we feel there is a problem with w= ith women representation in our community, we need to find a solution toget= her. Men and women both have brain, so they can both come with creative ide= as.

Cheers,

L=C3=A6titia

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