Received: from malur.postgresql.org ([217.196.149.56]) by arkaria.postgresql.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.89) (envelope-from ) id 1f6I45-0004iN-77 for pgsql-women@arkaria.postgresql.org; Wed, 11 Apr 2018 15:53:41 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=malur.postgresql.org) by malur.postgresql.org with esmtp (Exim 4.89) (envelope-from ) id 1f6I43-000424-Uw for pgsql-women@arkaria.postgresql.org; Wed, 11 Apr 2018 15:53:39 +0000 Received: from makus.postgresql.org ([2001:4800:1501:1::229]) by malur.postgresql.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.89) (envelope-from ) id 1f6I43-00041v-4Q for pgsql-women@lists.postgresql.org; Wed, 11 Apr 2018 15:53:39 +0000 Received: from mail-wr0-x22f.google.com ([2a00:1450:400c:c0c::22f]) by makus.postgresql.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:256) (Exim 4.89) (envelope-from ) id 1f6I3z-0003AH-6s for pgsql-women@lists.postgresql.org; Wed, 11 Apr 2018 15:53:37 +0000 Received: by mail-wr0-x22f.google.com with SMTP id l13so1228487wrb.5 for ; Wed, 11 Apr 2018 08:53:34 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=postgresql.us; s=postgresql.us; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=jDzfqKCjWOsZ8hLBGud68270jphbGlM/zTGadpGjWdU=; b=Ije9PJEMcPv/Q4VI/SIQHYQI45+wAYA5N5mCDLpocR6BQCeb98WkZ08541EhEQwJ/D ZEnDW0bDzFZ2t1KUInBGPVSts3fcEHYLA4o/FbqpeIvKJlLb+QOcW2G2O95ho1hsAFUw q4cxbUe9pFVNmOeSeukk8zgQYio0B98mRmT8g= X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=jDzfqKCjWOsZ8hLBGud68270jphbGlM/zTGadpGjWdU=; b=ePFmxDxuHGg5ffBzgUSNaDqmxylYuDW+REw7PbYFiciDZhEw7Oqe67tpBcE9A4zj9Y b3yB0LH2+J6ki38o84DiRqV4qhtT3CCx/0YOz+Ka3rtiI9lb9ySyHBpm1cvFqReJz/y8 LBl0MFuzonT1trWeG9+SIHfipVmbGz6jlL0VvDrj118yJfszizJge0fc+tTVFS0b2RmU B6EipS4/H1RG6yTQjWf4mdCKkCDKalQ+MLppckyDjbjQ5Ks+DH498Znk5qPIbnbTH6yz pp1ECQVtEbs5NlY/NeFpcf9mSF6nQy9AmjbRhHtB0h68hVOyKvHFTMAr4AJRDBCqtCSy AZDw== X-Gm-Message-State: ALQs6tBhdHM2LpVxeCGayvZ3UfnEGQRStG5Y9Hf4XF79KlVl59ZkRSWD EaK97a6765+2lGTyNyqHi6zbStthoBsvrhJQUrsUtg== X-Google-Smtp-Source: AIpwx49Ii3FnltmDi4BVgd7qitKOK40O9WCDfRZ8mv66OG2udNg3040gI+vhLlkq4I/UH6nca34q+LaTa9nT74UiR0I= X-Received: by 10.223.167.12 with SMTP id c12mr3842656wrd.194.1523462013202; Wed, 11 Apr 2018 08:53:33 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.223.133.180 with HTTP; Wed, 11 Apr 2018 08:53:32 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: <38ee76b5-8bf5-9171-70de-f926b1e618c9@gmail.com> From: Debra Cerda Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2018 10:53:32 -0500 Message-ID: Subject: Re: What we need to do To: Valeria Kaplan Cc: =?UTF-8?Q?L=C3=A6titia_Avrot?= , Dian Fay , pgsql-women@lists.postgresql.org Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="94eb2c1cc9442046f3056994a499" List-Id: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Post: List-Owner: List-Archive: Precedence: bulk --94eb2c1cc9442046f3056994a499 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Defining the vision of the group is also important, in regards to the role and contributions of men. How do you envision a typical Postgres Women meetup to go? For example, Women Who Code membership is restricted to women and people who identify as women, with men excluded from the majority of gatherings. This approach provides women with a comfortable space to empower one another and foster growth, but in my opinion alienates potential allies and supporters. On the other hand, when I had opened a dialogue last year about creating an international group of women in Postgres, I was met with enthusiasm mostly from men stating "OH! We can do this, and this, and..." Which was appreciated, but why not let women be the catalysts and the leaders? IMO, we need allies and supporters, not "white knights" -- give us guidance, but let us do the heavy lifting. As a female professional with a "portfolio" career in no less than 4 male-dominated industries -- Postgres, craft beer, water, and film! -- I've observed and been involved in a broad spectrum of approaches in creating diversity, equity, and inclusion. Setting your goals and tactics are the first step to building a strong foundation and achieving your overall mission. Respectfully, Debbie On Wed, Apr 11, 2018 at 4:45 AM, Valeria Kaplan wrote: > Hi All, > > Here is my two-cents :) > > @Postgresmen is run by Nikolay Samokhvalov and his main focus is indeed > tech P=D0=BEstgres news. He also organises #RuPostgres meetups. I agree t= hat > purely tech news is not exactly what we should focus on since there are > many other channels in place focusing on that. Agree on open source / > women focus and maybe we can do general tech news/women focus too. > > Partially, I think we need to do the last step (*Define goals and steps > to reach them*) first and then we will realise who exactly we need to > follow, how broad we should be and what to post overall. > > Here is my thinking and please feel free to feedback :) > > I am keeping in mind our already defined goal: Postgres Women is a > non-profit organization created to* encourage and support women to become > active members of the PostgreSQL community* and *foster recognition of > their contribution to PostgreSQL* development. > > 1. We want to *increase awareness of our initiative across tech > industry *(this is broad I know, but I think there is no harm in it) > >> To do this we could follow major women's initiatives in tech on > twitter/facebook in hope they will follow us and we will boost each-ot= her's content > aka get a wider reach/awareness. Note: we could also get ideas on what > initiatives we could do from their pages. > 2. We would like to *raise awareness of contribution of women in > Postgres* >> @planetpostgres has a good flow of all news related to > Postgres development, ideally we would retweet women-led contributions > (blog posts, patch announcements etc.) > 3. We would like to *encourage women to become active members in the > community *>> any big conferences in north America, Europe and Asia > have their own twitter channels and announce relevant talks/blogs, we = could > take that content and amplify women in it (retweet announcements about > women speakers, solicit content from those women for our channels e.g. > interviews, focus posts, opinion posts etc.) > > Reg face to face meeting, unfortunately I won't be there but if you will > be meeting there maybe others might join via skype/slack/whatsapp? > > thoughts? > > > Valeria > > > On Wed, Apr 11, 2018 at 7:53 AM, L=C3=A6titia Avrot > wrote: > >> Hi Dian, >> >>> I don't think there's enough content under the heading of women-focused >>> Postgres stuff to keep this thing going without branching out some. As = far >>> as Twitter/social media goes, @postgresmen seem like a decent reference >>> point: they publish general news, showcase interesting projects and use= ful >>> tools, boost on-topic blog posts, and so forth. Doing that with an eye >>> toward emphasizing and advancing the work women do on+with Postgres and >>> developing a supportive community would be awesome. >>> >> I might be wrong but I think Postgresmen is related to a russian postgre= s >> meetup so their followers are interested in tech news whereas our purpus= e >> is quite different. But maybe I'm wrong... >> >> Cheers, >> >> L=C3=A6titia >> > > --94eb2c1cc9442046f3056994a499 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Defining the vision of the group is also important, in reg= ards to the role and contributions of men.=C2=A0

How do = you envision a typical Postgres Women meetup to go?

For = example, Women Who Code membership is restricted to women and people who id= entify as women, with men excluded from the majority of gatherings. This ap= proach provides women with a comfortable space to empower one another and f= oster growth, but in my opinion alienates potential allies and supporters.= =C2=A0

On the other hand, when I had opened a dialogue l= ast year about creating an international group of women in Postgres, I was = met with enthusiasm mostly from men stating "OH! We can do this, and t= his, and..." Which was appreciated, but why not let women be the catal= ysts and the leaders? IMO, we need allies and supporters, not "white k= nights" -- give us guidance, but let us do the heavy lifting.

As a female professional with a "portfolio"= ; career in no less than 4 male-dominated industries -- Postgres, craft bee= r, water, and film! -- I've observed and been involved in a broad spect= rum of approaches in creating diversity, equity, and inclusion.=C2=A0
=

Setting your goals and tactics are the first step to bu= ilding a strong foundation and achieving your overall mission.
Respectfully,
Debbie

=C2=A0=

On Wed, Apr 11, 2018 at 4:45 AM, Valeria Kaplan <vk@dataegret.com><= /span> wrote:
Hi All,
Here is my two-cents :)

@Postgresmen is run by Nikolay Samokhvalov and his main f= ocus is indeed tech P=D0=BEstgres news. He also organises #RuPostgres meetu= ps. I agree that purely tech news is not exactly what we should focus on si= nce there are many other channels in place focusing on that.=C2=A0Agree on open source / women focus and maybe we can do ge= neral tech news/women focus too.=C2=A0
=

Partially, I think we need to do the last step (<= span style=3D"font-size:12.8px">Define goals and steps to reach them= ) first and then we will realise who exactly we need to follow, how broad w= e should=C2=A0be and what to post overall.=C2=A0

Here is my thinking and please feel free to feedback :)

I am keeping in mind our already defined goal:=C2=A0Postgres Women is a non-profit organization created to encourage and support women to become active members of the PostgreSQL co= mmunity and foster recognition of = their contribution to PostgreSQL development.<= span>=C2=A0
  1. We want to increase awareness of our initiative across tech industry (this is broad I know, but I think there is no harm in it) >>= To do this we could follow major women's initiatives in tech on twitte= r/facebook in hope they will follow us and we will boost each-other's=C2=A0content aka get a wider reach/awarenes= s. Note: we could also get ideas on what initiatives we could=C2=A0do from = their pages.
  2. We would like to raise awareness of contribution of women in Postgres >> @planetpostgres has a good flow of all news related to P= ostgres development, ideally we would=C2=A0retweet women-led contributions = (blog posts, patch announcements etc.)
  3. We would like to encourage women to be= come active members in the community=C2=A0>> any big conferences in north America, Europe and Asia have their= own twitter channels and announce relevant talks/blogs, we could take that= content and amplify women in it (retweet announcements about women speaker= s, solicit content from those women for our channels e.g. interviews, focus= posts, opinion posts etc.)=C2=A0
Reg face to face meeting, unfortunately I won't be there b= ut if you will be meeting there maybe others might join via skype/slack/wha= tsapp?

<= div>
thoughts?


Valeria


On Wed, Apr 11, 2018 at 7:53 AM, L=C3=A6tit= ia Avrot <laetitia.avrot@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi Dian,
=20 =20 =20

I don't think there's enough content under the heading of women-focused Postgres stuff to keep this thing going without branching out some. As far as Twitter/social media goes, @postgresmen seem like a decent reference point: they publish general news, showcase interesting projects and useful tools, boost on-topic blog posts, and so forth. Doing that with an eye toward emphasizing and advancing the work women do on+with Postgres and developing a supportive community would be awesome.
<= /p>

I might be wrong but I think Postgresmen = is related to a russian postgres meetup so their followers are interested i= n tech news whereas our purpuse is quite different. But maybe I'm wrong= ...

Cheers,

L=C3=A6titia


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