Received: from malur.postgresql.org ([217.196.149.56]) by arkaria.postgresql.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.89) (envelope-from ) id 1f6IaE-0006vQ-5L for pgsql-women@arkaria.postgresql.org; Wed, 11 Apr 2018 16:26:54 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=malur.postgresql.org) by malur.postgresql.org with esmtp (Exim 4.89) (envelope-from ) id 1f6IaD-0005n5-CA for pgsql-women@arkaria.postgresql.org; Wed, 11 Apr 2018 16:26:53 +0000 Received: from makus.postgresql.org ([2001:4800:1501:1::229]) by malur.postgresql.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.89) (envelope-from ) id 1f6IaC-0005ms-M0 for pgsql-women@lists.postgresql.org; Wed, 11 Apr 2018 16:26:53 +0000 Received: from mail-wr0-x236.google.com ([2a00:1450:400c:c0c::236]) by makus.postgresql.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:256) (Exim 4.89) (envelope-from ) id 1f6Ia8-0004AA-H2 for pgsql-women@lists.postgresql.org; Wed, 11 Apr 2018 16:26:51 +0000 Received: by mail-wr0-x236.google.com with SMTP id z73so2374429wrb.0 for ; Wed, 11 Apr 2018 09:26:47 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=omniti-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=WSlKTk6kf1NtWqHK3qhLjcb9CCIucSUwQZJKdO5wuyk=; b=yQ3BSs3EkmR+HDGLWIb7PAk7jWb815kFQoxnd80f1/DE2dMy6XavKm0DeyaPTZohja EkEeoypDFHNEj15QWa4Jw87+9DJInjmjzTPdyMe9U1xGoFCrM9mugaXHOqU41LhEMpBi ATkrivbI+7MnVcRxqsfD9yTnqWFoSE/cwuvSUwjxbX/XQxIjmuQw2oPE4OTePVgftnz0 5ZxBOVUZuivUQHeTy4+YjpN3fOJGB0JHybls1iS/bCaK2Nuygip+I0SEoets6QcUoCbD rTtus8pU9j34Am0puNCh4XKQLL4JLHxRoHnGtFAVWtH7OuHNVpP6JPFPVsG3jNDYnZDA Zynw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=WSlKTk6kf1NtWqHK3qhLjcb9CCIucSUwQZJKdO5wuyk=; b=H9N78VQA3oxMOUA4NgofWHx1GHQuvfPKzdT/DbSZLQW3VnLk+1MJi67hMnjP3As3C8 mW7Db0gFDEHF4NiLLfqvr6Eh2Tla57dL4sjuXn4ghQO8DX5o5mbGktUtMuhLr03Ec+MW HVeovlEFMdB3PnFTki2AhfpT4AGBOyUUSaOL96yBWONRbySLxtdx8HF5bgaA1/0k3U69 lz9HGZSY6TmtDh1ULZVgwrH2jLtzqvBYviIqYpkyCnsCoaLuCT5lI40RvyDK/l5fwMcv tIxPUXxVeu/GTgf3IHT8xr/WYpvQDAFv8HXaHlHQ8gq9OV7aw3SAVMT9Q4wxJ6xuttcx QU6Q== X-Gm-Message-State: ALQs6tDN7WZ47dAzUnQHzBLd0vIlSFN2hEtQ77KQA/r8Yi4aNYwlgfU7 CsxyKi9g9ZDpG701/h/7FkFyX+A00kQeFPXHAI1EqA== X-Google-Smtp-Source: AIpwx4/MuVlb1Q3taRPWvhcuG0rfDdalmVpmKniYAtaxrEbl+Q+cjCncux0lrpK9WP6ZieEc1+g3WrnLpiJSJTb4ong= X-Received: by 10.223.129.195 with SMTP id 61mr3949410wra.86.1523464005863; Wed, 11 Apr 2018 09:26:45 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.28.17.18 with HTTP; Wed, 11 Apr 2018 09:26:25 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: <38ee76b5-8bf5-9171-70de-f926b1e618c9@gmail.com> From: Payal Singh Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2018 12:26:25 -0400 Message-ID: Subject: Re: What we need to do To: Debra Cerda Cc: Valeria Kaplan , =?UTF-8?Q?L=C3=A6titia_Avrot?= , Dian Fay , pgsql-women@lists.postgresql.org Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="001a1148efbce5eb230569951a42" List-Id: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Post: List-Owner: List-Archive: Precedence: bulk --001a1148efbce5eb230569951a42 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable > > >>> 1. >>> Define goals and steps to reach them >>> >>> Since this is smack in the middle of the conference season, was >> wondering how many of us will be at pgCon or one of the other conference= s? >> Maybe if enough of us will be attending one of these conferences, we can >> have an in-person meeting do discuss the steps and goals. >> > > I'll be at pgCon. I was wondering if we could give a lightning talk about > Postgres Women as we did at PgDay Paris. > I think that's a good idea. We should definitely do that. >> We will have several women not only in attendance and speaking at >> PostgresConf US 2018 next week, but also the majority of our volunteer b= ase >> is the local Women Who Code NYC chapter. I suggest prioritizing reaching >> out and engaging women in other open source and coding spaces as well, t= o >> foster more interest and growth in Postgres community as a whole and at >> large. >> >> > Great idea! > +1 Getting more women interested and exposed to Postgres should be our top priority, closely followed by the need for a welcoming and warm community to make sure those women choose to stay :) Never one to complain, BUT I can't say I haven't felt isolated and lonely at times especially when at a postgres conference surrounded by all men. I have also been told I'm not the only one who feels this way by other women I've spoken to. These two goals - 1. Attracting more women to Postgres and 2. Making a healthy community where women feel represented should be our starting goal to focus on. For example, Women Who Code membership is restricted to women and people > who identify as women, with men excluded from the majority of gatherings. > This approach provides women with a comfortable space to empower one > another and foster growth, but in my opinion alienates potential allies a= nd > supporters. I would agree involving men is a good idea. The purpose of the group is to make women feel welcomed, and alienating men seems unnecessary in that regard, if not counter-productive. On the other hand, when I had opened a dialogue last year about creating an > international group of women in Postgres, I was met with enthusiasm mostl= y > from men stating "OH! We can do this, and this, and..." Which was > appreciated, but why not let women be the catalysts and the leaders? IMO, > we need allies and supporters, not "white knights" -- give us guidance, b= ut > let us do the heavy lifting. +1 I am keeping in mind our already defined goal: Postgres Women is a > non-profit organization created to* encourage and support women to become > active members of the PostgreSQL community* and *foster recognition of > their contribution to PostgreSQL* development. > > 1. We want to *increase awareness of our initiative across tech > industry *(this is broad I know, but I think there is no harm in it) > >> To do this we could follow major women's initiatives in tech on > twitter/facebook in hope they will follow us and we will boost each-ot= her's content > aka get a wider reach/awareness. Note: we could also get ideas on what > initiatives we could do from their pages. > 2. We would like to *raise awareness of contribution of women in > Postgres* >> @planetpostgres has a good flow of all news related to > Postgres development, ideally we would retweet women-led contributions > (blog posts, patch announcements etc.) > 3. We would like to *encourage women to become active members in the > community *>> any big conferences in north America, Europe and Asia > have their own twitter channels and announce relevant talks/blogs, we = could > take that content and amplify women in it (retweet announcements about > women speakers, solicit content from those women for our channels e.g. > interviews, focus posts, opinion posts etc.) > > Yes, I was thinking on slightly similar lines - the easiest way to start is to try to collect postgres blog posts written by women and post them on our twitter feeds. And from there, once we can get our own webpage, we can probably have a subset of planet postgresql feeds publishing women authored posts. Same goes for conference talks. I also think that little things like anyone asking on slack channel "who's attending conference?" will be helpful. Probably not something we can do right off the bat, but having swag such a postgres_women stickers to have at the postgres booth in conferences will go a long way in getting the name out and making new women feel welcomed (I like PyWomen initiatives). PyLadies also has an extra day at the end of some python conferences to hold official meetups and workshops for women, of course I don't expect us to do this right away, but just laying out the possibilities and the need for such a community. ( http://www.pyladies.com/ ) I am also interested in tech news though! And there is no women-focused > coverage of Postgres news & discussion at the moment, at least that I'm > aware of. Stepping into that gap may not be directly what this group is > about, but like Valeria says it helps maintain and expand our presence, > which we need in order to accomplish our overall goal. Fair point. My initial concern regarding other similar postgres twitter accounts was mainly so we're not just left replicating their tweets the whole time. I think we can start slow, that is, tweet selective articles, and guage the response (retweets, views, etc.) and go from there. One last thing, I believe if we want new women to approach postgres through this community, we can't reply on them subscribing to mailing lists or even the postgres wiki page. For daily interaction with newcomers, I think the most accessible way to get them in is via slack, so I propose we put our slack channel in our postgres_women mentions as the first way to become a member. Just putting myself in the shoes of a fresh college grad, I'd be much more inclined to check out a community if I can just sign up on a popular chat tool (slack) as opposed to subscribing to a mailing list. Once they're in Slack, I'm sure we can get them to become 'real' community members by making a postgres account :) I am speaking at a couple of upcoming conferences and was thinking of adding a mention of postgres_women in my last thank you slide to get the word out. Yay or nay? Maybe other speakers can do the same. Thanks, Payal Payal Singh, Database Administrator, OmniTI Computer Consulting Inc. Phone: 240.646.0770 x 253 On Wed, Apr 11, 2018 at 11:53 AM, Debra Cerda wrote: > Defining the vision of the group is also important, in regards to the rol= e > and contributions of men. > > How do you envision a typical Postgres Women meetup to go? > > For example, Women Who Code membership is restricted to women and people > who identify as women, with men excluded from the majority of gatherings. > This approach provides women with a comfortable space to empower one > another and foster growth, but in my opinion alienates potential allies a= nd > supporters. > > On the other hand, when I had opened a dialogue last year about creating > an international group of women in Postgres, I was met with enthusiasm > mostly from men stating "OH! We can do this, and this, and..." Which was > appreciated, but why not let women be the catalysts and the leaders? IMO, > we need allies and supporters, not "white knights" -- give us guidance, b= ut > let us do the heavy lifting. > > As a female professional with a "portfolio" career in no less than 4 > male-dominated industries -- Postgres, craft beer, water, and film! -- I'= ve > observed and been involved in a broad spectrum of approaches in creating > diversity, equity, and inclusion. > > Setting your goals and tactics are the first step to building a strong > foundation and achieving your overall mission. > > Respectfully, > Debbie > > > > On Wed, Apr 11, 2018 at 4:45 AM, Valeria Kaplan wrote: > >> Hi All, >> >> Here is my two-cents :) >> >> @Postgresmen is run by Nikolay Samokhvalov and his main focus is indeed >> tech P=D0=BEstgres news. He also organises #RuPostgres meetups. I agree = that >> purely tech news is not exactly what we should focus on since there are >> many other channels in place focusing on that. Agree on open source / >> women focus and maybe we can do general tech news/women focus too. >> >> Partially, I think we need to do the last step (*Define goals and steps >> to reach them*) first and then we will realise who exactly we need to >> follow, how broad we should be and what to post overall. >> >> Here is my thinking and please feel free to feedback :) >> >> I am keeping in mind our already defined goal: Postgres Women is a >> non-profit organization created to* encourage and support women to >> become active members of the PostgreSQL community* and *foster >> recognition of their contribution to PostgreSQL* development. >> >> 1. We want to *increase awareness of our initiative across tech >> industry *(this is broad I know, but I think there is no harm in it) >> >> To do this we could follow major women's initiatives in tech on >> twitter/facebook in hope they will follow us and we will boost each-o= ther's content >> aka get a wider reach/awareness. Note: we could also get ideas on wha= t >> initiatives we could do from their pages. >> 2. We would like to *raise awareness of contribution of women in >> Postgres* >> @planetpostgres has a good flow of all news related to >> Postgres development, ideally we would retweet women-led contribution= s >> (blog posts, patch announcements etc.) >> 3. We would like to *encourage women to become active members in the >> community *>> any big conferences in north America, Europe and Asia >> have their own twitter channels and announce relevant talks/blogs, we= could >> take that content and amplify women in it (retweet announcements abou= t >> women speakers, solicit content from those women for our channels e.g= . >> interviews, focus posts, opinion posts etc.) >> >> Reg face to face meeting, unfortunately I won't be there but if you will >> be meeting there maybe others might join via skype/slack/whatsapp? >> >> thoughts? >> >> >> Valeria >> >> >> On Wed, Apr 11, 2018 at 7:53 AM, L=C3=A6titia Avrot >> wrote: >> >>> Hi Dian, >>> >>>> I don't think there's enough content under the heading of women-focuse= d >>>> Postgres stuff to keep this thing going without branching out some. As= far >>>> as Twitter/social media goes, @postgresmen seem like a decent referenc= e >>>> point: they publish general news, showcase interesting projects and us= eful >>>> tools, boost on-topic blog posts, and so forth. Doing that with an eye >>>> toward emphasizing and advancing the work women do on+with Postgres an= d >>>> developing a supportive community would be awesome. >>>> >>> I might be wrong but I think Postgresmen is related to a russian >>> postgres meetup so their followers are interested in tech news whereas = our >>> purpuse is quite different. But maybe I'm wrong... >>> >>> Cheers, >>> >>> L=C3=A6titia >>> >> >> > --001a1148efbce5eb230569951a42 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
    <= li style=3D"margin-left:15px">
    Define goals and steps to reach them
Since this is smack in the middle of the confe= rence season, was wondering how many of us will be at pgCon or one of the o= ther conferences? Maybe if enough of us will be attending one of these conf= erences, we can have an in-person meeting do discuss the steps and goals.

I&= #39;ll be at pgCon. I was wondering if we could give a lightning talk about= Postgres Women as we did at PgDay Paris.

I think that's a good idea. We should definitely do that.=C2= =A0

<= span class=3D"gmail-im" style=3D"font-size:12.8px">

We= will have several women not only in attendance and speaking at PostgresCon= f US 2018 next week, but also the majority of our volunteer base is the loc= al Women Who Code NYC chapter. I suggest prioritizing reaching out and enga= ging women in other open source and coding spaces as well, to foster more i= nterest and growth in Postgres community as a whole and at large.=C2=A0


<= /span>
Great idea!
+1

Getting more women interested and = exposed to Postgres should be our top priority, closely followed by the nee= d for a welcoming and warm community to make sure those women choose to sta= y :) Never one to complain, BUT I can't say I haven't felt isolated= and lonely at times especially when at a postgres conference surrounded by= all men. I have also been told I'm not the only one who feels this way= by other women I've spoken to. These two goals - 1. Attracting more wo= men to Postgres and 2. Making a healthy community where women feel represen= ted should be our starting goal to focus on.=C2=A0=C2=A0

For example, Women Who Code membership is restricted to women and= people who identify as women, with men excluded from the majority of gathe= rings. This approach provides women with a comfortable space to empower one= another and foster growth, but in my opinion alienates potential allies an= d supporters.=C2=A0

I would agree in= volving men is a good idea. The purpose of the group is to make women feel = welcomed, and alienating men seems unnecessary in that regard, if not count= er-productive.=C2=A0=C2=A0

On the other hand, w= hen I had opened a dialogue last year about creating an international group= of women in Postgres, I was met with enthusiasm mostly from men stating &q= uot;OH! We can do this, and this, and..." Which was appreciated, but w= hy not let women be the catalysts and the leaders? IMO, we need allies and = supporters, not "white knights" -- give us guidance, but let us d= o the heavy lifting.

+1
I am keeping in mind our al= ready defined goal:=C2=A0Postgres Women is a non-profit organization created = to=C2=A0encourage and support women to become active members of the= PostgreSQL community=C2=A0and=C2=A0foster recognition of = their contribution to PostgreSQL=C2=A0development.=C2=A0
  1. We want to=C2=A0increase awareness of our init= iative across tech industry=C2=A0(this is broad I know, but I th= ink there is no harm in it) >> To do this we could follow major women= 's initiatives in tech on twitter/facebook in hope they will follow us = and we will boost each-other's=C2=A0co= ntent aka get a wider reach/awareness. Note: we could also get ideas on wha= t initiatives we could=C2=A0do from their pages.
  2. We would like to=C2=A0rai= se awareness of contribution of women in Postgres=C2=A0>> @planetpostgres has a good flow of all news related to Pos= tgres development, ideally we would=C2=A0retweet women-led contributions (b= log posts, patch announcements etc.)
  3. We would like to=C2=A0encourage women to become active members in the community=C2=A0>> any big conferences in north Ameri= ca, Europe and Asia have their own twitter channels and announce relevant t= alks/blogs, we could take that content and amplify women in it (retweet ann= ouncements about women speakers, solicit content from those women for our c= hannels e.g. interviews, focus posts, opinion posts etc.)=C2=A0
    4. =

Yes, I was thinking on slightly= similar lines - the easiest way to start is to try to collect postgres blo= g posts written by women and post them on our twitter feeds. And from there= , once we can get our own webpage, we can probably have a subset of planet = postgresql feeds publishing women authored posts. Same goes for conference = talks.=C2=A0

I also think that little things like = anyone asking on slack channel "who's attending <blah> confe= rence?" will be helpful. Probably not something we can do right off th= e bat, but having swag such a postgres_women stickers to have at the postgr= es booth in conferences will go a long way in getting the name out and maki= ng new women feel welcomed (I like PyWomen initiatives).=C2=A0
PyLadies also has an=C2=A0 extra day at the end of some python= conferences to hold official meetups and workshops for women, of course I = don't expect us to do this right away, but just laying out the possibil= ities and the need for such a community. ( http://www.pyladies.com/ )


=C2=A0I am also interested in tech news though! And there is no women-f= ocused coverage of Postgres news & discussion at the moment, at least t= hat I'm aware of. Stepping into that gap may not be directly what this = group is about, but like Valeria says it helps maintain and expand our pres= ence, which we need in order to accomplish our overall goal.

Fair point. My initial concern regarding other sim= ilar postgres twitter accounts was mainly so we're not just left replic= ating their tweets the whole time. I think we can start slow, that is, twee= t selective articles, and guage the response (retweets, views, etc.) and go= from there.=C2=A0

One last thing, I believe if we= want new women to approach postgres through this community, we can't r= eply on them subscribing to mailing lists or even the postgres wiki page. F= or daily interaction with newcomers, I think the most accessible way to get= them in is via slack, so I propose we put our slack channel in our postgre= s_women mentions as the first way to become a member. Just putting myself i= n the shoes of a fresh college grad, I'd be much more inclined to check= out a community if I can just sign up on a popular chat tool (slack) as op= posed to subscribing to a mailing list. Once they're in Slack, I'm = sure we can get them to become 'real' community members by making a= postgres account :)=C2=A0

I am speaking at a coup= le of upcoming conferences and was thinking of adding a mention of postgres= _women in my last thank you slide to get the word out. Yay or nay? Maybe ot= her speakers can do the same.

Thanks,
Pa= yal=C2=A0

=C2=A0

Payal Singh,
Database Administrator,
OmniTI Computer Consulting I= nc.
= Phone:= =C2=A0240.6= 46.0770=C2= =A0x 253

On Wed, Apr 11, 2018 at 11:53 AM, Debra Cerd= a <dcerda@postgresql.us> wrote:
Defining the vision of the group is also importan= t, in regards to the role and contributions of men.=C2=A0

How do you envision a typical Postgres Women meetup to go?

=
For example, Women Who Code membership is restricted to women and peop= le who identify as women, with men excluded from the majority of gatherings= . This approach provides women with a comfortable space to empower one anot= her and foster growth, but in my opinion alienates potential allies and sup= porters.=C2=A0

On the other hand, when I had opened a di= alogue last year about creating an international group of women in Postgres= , I was met with enthusiasm mostly from men stating "OH! We can do thi= s, and this, and..." Which was appreciated, but why not let women be t= he catalysts and the leaders? IMO, we need allies and supporters, not "= ;white knights" -- give us guidance, but let us do the heavy lifting.<= /div>

As a female professional with a "portfo= lio" career in no less than 4 male-dominated industries -- Postgres, c= raft beer, water, and film! -- I've observed and been involved in a bro= ad spectrum of approaches in creating diversity, equity, and inclusion.=C2= =A0

Setting your goals and tactics are the first s= tep to building a strong foundation and achieving your overall mission.

Respectfully,
Debbie

=C2=A0

On Wed, Apr 11, 2018 at 4= :45 AM, Valeria Kaplan <vk@dataegret.com> wrote:
Hi All,

Here is m= y two-cents :)

@Postgre= smen is run by Nikolay Samokhvalov and his main focus is indeed tech P=D0= =BEstgres news. He also organises #RuPostgres meetups. I agree that purely = tech news is not exactly what we should focus on since there are many other= channels in place focusing on that.=C2=A0Agree = on open source / women focus and maybe we can do general tech news/women fo= cus too.=C2=A0

Partially, I think we need to do the last step (Define goals and steps to reach them) first and then we will= realise who exactly we need to follow, how broad we should=C2=A0be and wha= t to post overall.=C2=A0
=
Here is my thinking = and please feel free to feedback :)

I am keep= ing in mind our already defined goal:=C2=A0Postgres Women= is a non-profit organization created to encourage and support = women to become active members of the PostgreSQL community and foster recognition of their contribution to Po= stgreSQL development.=C2=A0
  1. We want to increase a= wareness of our initiative across tech industry (this is broad I= know, but I think there is no harm in it) >> To do this we could fol= low major women's initiatives in tech on twitter/facebook in hope they = will follow us and we will boost each-other's=C2=A0content aka get a wider reach/awareness. Note: we could also g= et ideas on what initiatives we could=C2=A0do from their pages.
    2. =
  2. We would like to raise awareness of c= ontribution of women in Postgres >> @plan= etpostgres has a good flow of all news related to Postgres development, ide= ally we would=C2=A0retweet women-led contributions (blog posts, patch annou= ncements etc.)
  3. We would like to encourage women to become active members in t= he community=C2=A0>> any big confe= rences in north America, Europe and Asia have their own twitter channels an= d announce relevant talks/blogs, we could take that content and amplify wom= en in it (retweet announcements about women speakers, solicit content from = those women for our channels e.g. interviews, focus posts, opinion posts et= c.)=C2=A0
Reg face to= face meeting, unfortunately I won't be there but if you will be meetin= g there maybe others might join via skype/slack/whatsapp?
<= /div>

thoughts?


Valeria


On Wed, Apr 11, 2018 at= 7:53 AM, L=C3=A6titia Avrot <laetitia.avrot@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi Dian,
=20 =20 =20

I don't think there's enough content under the heading of women-focused Postgres stuff to keep this thing going without branching out some. As far as Twitter/social media goes, @postgresmen seem like a decent reference point: they publish general news, showcase interesting projects and useful tools, boost on-topic blog posts, and so forth. Doing that with an eye toward emphasizing and advancing the work women do on+with Postgres and developing a supportive community would be awesome.
<= /p>

I might be wrong but I think Postgresmen = is related to a russian postgres meetup so their followers are interested i= n tech news whereas our purpuse is quite different. But maybe I'm wrong= ...

Cheers,

L=C3=A6titia



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