Subject: PostgreSQL 8.3.1, 8.2.7 Update Release

From: Josh Berkus <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 18 Mar 2008 14:24:50 -0700

Updates for versions 8.3 and 8.2 of the PostgreSQL database management 
system are available today.  This minor release fixes more than 20 minor 
issues uncovered by our community in PostgreSQL 8.3.0 and 8.2.6 over the 
last few weeks.  All users of 8.3 and 8.2 are urged to schedule an upgrade 
at the earliest reasonable opportunity.

As with other minor releases, users are not required to dump and reload 
their database in order to apply this update release; you may simply 
upgrade the PostgreSQL binaries.  However, users affected by the Windows 
locale issue (see release notes) may need to REINDEX some indexes.

Release Notes: http://www.postgresql.org/8.3/static/release-8-3-1.html
    http://www.postgresql.org/8.2/static/release-8-2-7.html
Source Code: http://www.postgresql.org/ftp/source/v8.3.1
    http://www.postgresql.org/ftp/source/v8.2.7
Binaries: http://www.postgresql.org/ftp/binary/v8.3.1
    http://www.postgresql.org/ftp/binary/v8.2.7
 
--PostgreSQL Global Development Group
--PostgreSQL Core Team

---

From: Magnus Hagander <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 18 Mar 2008 23:22:39 +0100

>     http://www.postgresql.org/8.2/static/release-8-2-7.html

These links are clearly wrong. Please at least try to click on them 
before you post them.

I have fixed the broken docs links in the announcement on the website. 
Which funny enough had *different* errors, three in total, but were 
still wrong. Someone should probably send an update on this announcement...

The binary links look ok AFAICS.

//Magnus

---

From: Josh Berkus <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 18 Mar 2008 15:31:20 -0700

Magnus,

> These links are clearly wrong. Please at least try to click on them

I did actually run the announcement past 16 people, none of whom caught the 
error.  However, since they weren't web people, nobody looked at the 
links.  For some reason, the core web team was booted off -packagers, 
something I was unaware of, so I didn't know they'd gone unexamined.

Unfortunately, I don't have a composer for e-mail which allows me to "click 
on" the links; so if I forget a "cut & paste" test for some of the links 
they don't get fixed.  Oddly, I did actually check & fix the ones on 
wwwmaster, but those didn't save, apparently?

Anyway, we obviously need the core web team (you, Robert, Stefan) in the 
review lineup since nobody else checks things like links.  What's the best 
way to do that?

-- 
--Josh Berkus

Josh Berkus
PostgreSQL Project Core Team
www.postgresql.org

(all opinions expressed are my own; I do not speak
 for the Project unless specifically noted.)

---

From: "Greg Sabino Mullane" <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 18 Mar 2008 22:57:14 -0000

>>     http://www.postgresql.org/8.2/static/release-8-2-7.html
...
> I have fixed the broken docs links in the announcement on the website.

Now that the horse is out of the barn, could we at least put in a
one-time redirect for the links above so they aren't 404?

- --
Greg Sabino Mullane [email-masked]
PGP Key: 0x14964AC8 200803181856
http://biglumber.com/x/web?pk=2529DF6AB8F79407E94445B4BC9B906714964AC8

---

From: Josh Berkus <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 18 Mar 2008 16:21:08 -0700

All,

> one-time redirect for the links above so they aren't 404?

Also, can someone please clear my correction announcement?  As far as I can 
tell, it still hasn't gone out.

Sigh.  I'm still paying for Marc accidentally deleting my e-mail account 2 
weeks ago.  Several people who I thought had reviewed the announcement 
didn't because they never received it ...

-- 
--Josh

Josh Berkus
PostgreSQL @ Sun
San Francisco

---

From: Bruce Momjian <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 18 Mar 2008 19:39:20 -0400 (EDT)

> didn't because they never received it ...

Uh, you sent out the announcement.  I don't see how you can blame Marc
for the wrong URLs at this point.

-- 
  Bruce Momjian  <[email-masked]>        http://momjian.us
  EnterpriseDB                             http://postgres.enterprisedb.com

  + If your life is a hard drive, Christ can be your backup. +

---

From: Josh Berkus <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 18 Mar 2008 17:03:16 -0700

Bruce,

> for the wrong URLs at this point.

I *can* blame him for not being subscribed to pgsql-packagers, when I 
thought I was.

-- 
--Josh

Josh Berkus
PostgreSQL @ Sun
San Francisco

---

From: Josh Berkus <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 18 Mar 2008 17:08:41 -0700

All,

Anyway, we clearly need a mailing list to run the announcements through 
which includes web people, or this'll keep happening.  Should that be 
-packagers or -slaves?  If the former, can we get Robert and Stefan added 
to -packagers?  Or at least *me*?

-- 
--Josh

Josh Berkus
PostgreSQL @ Sun
San Francisco

---

From: David Fetter <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 18 Mar 2008 17:13:56 -0700

On Tue, Mar 18, 2008 at 05:03:16PM -0700, Josh Berkus wrote:
> Bruce,
> 
> > Uh, you sent out the announcement.  I don't see how you can blame
> > Marc for the wrong URLs at this point.
> 
> I *can* blame him for not being subscribed to pgsql-packagers, when
> I thought I was.

I need to be subscribed to that list, too.

Cheers,
David (not a packager, but I do need to know in advance when and why
releases are going out for what should be pretty obvious reasons)
-- 
David Fetter <[email-masked]> http://fetter.org/
Phone: +1 415 235 3778  AIM: dfetter666  Yahoo!: dfetter
Skype: davidfetter      XMPP: [email-masked]

Remember to vote!
Consider donating to Postgres: http://www.postgresql.org/about/donate

---

From: "Joshua D. Drake" <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 18 Mar 2008 18:24:41 -0700

On Tue, 18 Mar 2008 17:08:41 -0700
Josh Berkus <[email-masked]> wrote:

> All,
> 
> Anyway, we clearly need a mailing list to run the announcements
> through which includes web people, or this'll keep happening.  Should
> that be -packagers or -slaves?  If the former, can we get Robert and
> Stefan added to -packagers?  Or at least *me*?
> 

Why not press?

Joshua D. Drake

- -- 
The PostgreSQL Company since 1997: http://www.commandprompt.com/ 
PostgreSQL Community Conference: http://www.postgresqlconference.org/
Donate to the PostgreSQL Project: http://www.postgresql.org/about/donate
      PostgreSQL political pundit | Mocker of Dolphins

---

From: Josh Berkus <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 18 Mar 2008 18:33:46 -0700

Josh,

> Why not press?

That's an alias for response to public inqury, not a mailing list.

-- 
--Josh

Josh Berkus
PostgreSQL @ Sun
San Francisco

---

From: "Joshua D. Drake" <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 18 Mar 2008 18:35:27 -0700

On Tue, 18 Mar 2008 18:33:46 -0700

> That's an alias for response to public inqury, not a mailing list.

Then let's make it a open, no subscribe list. It wouldn't behave any
differently than it does now but would allow us to service the
announcement review etc...

Sincerely,

Joshua D. Drake

- --

---

From: "Joshua D. Drake" <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 18 Mar 2008 18:50:42 -0700

On Tue, 18 Mar 2008 18:35:27 -0700
"Joshua D. Drake" <[email-masked]> wrote:

> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA1
> 

And actually in thinking about this what needs to happen is that
announcements don't go out until they are publicly verified on X list
by two people. This idea that we can all keep up with the various state
of infrastructure or changes to every nook and cranny is silly.

There is a reason when I posted my URL for web changes, I waited, and
waited and then reposted when nobody responded.

Sincerely,

Joshua D. Drake

- --

---

From: Devrim GÜNDÜZ <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 18 Mar 2008 19:15:50 -0700

Hi,

> Stefan added  to -packagers?  Or at least *me*?

I'd vote for -slaves list. Let's keep packagers list for packaging
discussions only.

Regards,
-- 
Devrim GÜNDÜZ , RHCE
PostgreSQL Replication, Consulting, Custom Development, 24x7 support
Managed Services, Shared and Dedicated Hosting
Co-Authors: plPHP, ODBCng - http://www.commandprompt.com/

---

From: Tom Lane <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 18 Mar 2008 23:15:48 -0400

> I'd vote for -slaves list. Let's keep packagers list for packaging

+1.  Last-minute checks of announcements seem like material for that
group.

The -packagers list knows about security problems well in advance
of releases, so there are obvious reasons to keep that as tightly
held as possible.

			regards, tom lane

---

From: Magnus Hagander <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 19 Mar 2008 08:32:18 +0100

> one-time redirect for the links above so they aren't 404?
I'd vote against it. If we keep putting in redirects everytime someone 
posts incorrect URLs, we'll end up with so many redirects we'll soon 
enough be entirely unable to add new pages to the site...

The links from the version list on the frontpage are correct, so just 
removing the path from the URL will bring you to the right spot - which 
is what I'd expect to be standard practice if you encounter a broken URL 
in an announcement.

//Magnus

---

From: Josh Berkus <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 19 Mar 2008 11:13:27 -0700

Josh,

> announcement review etc...

Absolutely not.  Requests made to press@ are often semi-confidential; 
companies don't want to share their requests about export certification 
with Google, and reporters *definitely* don't want to share their story 
ideas with their collegues!  

I'm really confused on why you're trying to turn a confidential, 
quick-response alias into a public mailing list, when you'd just force us 
to create another alias.

It sounds like -slaves is the way to go.  Anyone have any other ideas? 

-- 
--Josh

Josh Berkus
PostgreSQL @ Sun
San Francisco

---

From: "Joshua D. Drake" <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 19 Mar 2008 11:26:10 -0700

On Wed, 19 Mar 2008 11:13:27 -0700
Josh Berkus <[email-masked]> wrote:

> companies don't want to share their requests about export
> certification with Google, and reporters *definitely* don't want to
> share their story ideas with their collegues!  

Huh? Just make the archives private.

> quick-response alias into a public mailing list, when you'd just
> force us to create another alias.
> 

I am confused why you are confused :P. You can make it an open list
that has closed archives. This protects confidentiality but allows all
communication on the list itself to be archived for further review by
the list members itself.

Further it solves the problem of who needs to be on the list to check
things. It seems that announcements would be best reviewed by those who
are going to be asked about those announcements, thus a press list.

I was trying to avoid being on yet another list. As I already receive
press@ it made sense to me.

Sincerely,

Joshua D. Drake

- --

---

From: Robert Treat <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 20 Mar 2008 07:08:10 -0400

> I'd vote for -slaves list. Let's keep packagers list for packaging

THe issue I have with the slaves list is that it's very high noise to signal, 
and I'd be concerned about missing such an email... can we not just do it on 
www ? 

-- 
Robert Treat
Build A Brighter LAMP :: Linux Apache {middleware} PostgreSQL

---

From: Magnus Hagander <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 20 Mar 2008 12:21:59 +0100

> and I'd be concerned about missing such an email... can we not just do it on 

Most of that noise is from the nagios alerts, right? Perhaps we should 
look over how we do those notifies. Since a lot of them seem to simply 
be ignored, they should at least not be distributed to all the people 
who cannot possibly do anything about them...

//Magnus

---

From: Devrim GÜNDÜZ <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 20 Mar 2008 05:51:20 -0700

Hi,

> who cannot possibly do anything about them...

+1. 

Regards,

---

From: "Joshua D. Drake" <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 20 Mar 2008 08:46:30 -0700

On Thu, 20 Mar 2008 07:08:10 -0400
Robert Treat <[email-masked]> wrote:

> 
> THe issue I have with the slaves list is that it's very high noise to
> signal, and I'd be concerned about missing such an email... can we
> not just do it on www ? 
> 

We can't use www because sometimes the release is private, literally
until we release. It must be a closed list.

Sincerely,

Joshua D. Drake

- -- 
The PostgreSQL Company since 1997: http://www.commandprompt.com/ 
PostgreSQL Community Conference: http://www.postgresqlconference.org/
United States PostgreSQL Association: http://www.postgresql.us/
Donate to the PostgreSQL Project: http://www.postgresql.org/about/donate

---

From: Magnus Hagander <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 26 Mar 2008 11:50:31 +0100

> > These links are clearly wrong. Please at least try to click on them

Sorry for not getting back to you earlier on this. The email ended up in
the grayzone that is "deal with this later"-emails...

> something I was unaware of, so I didn't know they'd gone unexamined.

I think that was by mistake really.

> on" the links; so if I forget a "cut & paste" test for some of the links 

Wow, such mail programs even exist? :-) I can even do that through mutt
on the commandline :-P

> wwwmaster, but those didn't save, apparently?

Maybe we fixed them at the very same time? There is no locking for edits
on that page, so if you started editing it and I also started editing it
before you saved, I got the non-fixed version.

> review lineup since nobody else checks things like links.  What's the best 

A good start is probably to add "verify all web links" to the release
checklist? Doesn't have to be a core web guy to do that - it just
requires someone with a browser...

//Magnus