From: Jean-Michel POURE <jm@poure.com>
Reply-To: jm@poure.com
To: Tim Conrad <tim@timconrad.org>
Subject: Re: [HACKERS] What can we learn from MySQL?
Date: Wed, 28 Apr 2004 10:13:27 +0200
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Cc: Bruce Momjian <pgman@candle.pha.pa.us>,
	PostgreSQL-development <pgsql-hackers@postgresql.org>,
	PostgreSQL advocacy <pgsql-advocacy@postgresql.org>
References: <200404262213.44601.jm@poure.com>
	<200404262041.i3QKfZs28845@candle.pha.pa.us>
	<20040427152753.GA34713@external.timconrad.org>
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Message-Id: <200404281013.27859.jm@poure.com>

Dear Tim,

These are execellent proposals. My only remark would be to build a 
step-by-step approach.

In a first stage, we could set-up a minimal web page for the Win32 port:
- PostgreSQL Win32 installer (possibly translated),
- translation of the web page in 40 languages,
- step-by-step installation under Win32 (screenshots),
- links (NLS project, documentation),

...  advertise (example: http://www.pgadmin.org/pgadmin3/advocacy.php) and 
start monitoring downloads.

With PostgreSQL Win32 version and looking at pgAdmin III statistics, reaching 
one million downloads every month seems a reasonable target. PostgreSQL is 
such a wonderful community project that there is no need to build complex 
marketing strategies to reach impressive goals.

In a second stage, we can start building a rich web site (as you proposed) and 
make it live on the long run.

Best regards,
Jean-Michel


> I've been sort-of reading this thread off and on, so this may
> contain duplicate suggestions.
>
> I was researching an article I wrote about a comparison between
> Postgres and MySQL recently (If you want, you can read the article
> at http://www.devx.com/dbzone/Article/20743/). I noticed some clear
> differences between the mysql.com website and the Postgres website.
>
> 1) Since MySQL AB supports and trains for MySQL, there's loads of
>    training information available on their website. On the other
>    hand, I had a hard time finding training information for Postgres
>    in general. Same goes for support. It's easier to find, but it's
>    still somewhat convoluted, IMO.
>
> 2) There doesn't seem to be a clear roadmap on Postgres features.
>    When certian things are expected. There's the TODO list that
>    Bruce maintains, but it only outlines 'near' fixes. MySQL has a
>    nice listing of what to expect in certian future versions. I know
>    it's not a perfect list, but it'd be nice to know when full blown
>    replication will be included in PostgreSQL as an example.
>    On those same lines, there doesn't seem to be anything about the
>    improvements in the minor versions. It seems that in every
>    release (i.e. 7.2,7.3,7.4) there are pretty significant changes,
>    but finding a place that outlines these changes is somewhat
>    difficult.
>    While being somewhat nit-picky on this, it'd also be helpful if
>    someone wasn't completely database literate could understand some
>    of the changes. Who needs transactions, anyways? :)
>
>  3) There's the issues of 'advanced database features' in general.
>     Many MySQL applications perform much of their logic in the
>     application level, instead of the database level. They do this
>     because there aren't things like triggers or stored procedures
>     in MySQL. As the saying goes, 'if mohammad won't go to the
>     mountain, bring the mountian to mohammad'. Why not do some
>     simple explainations as to why these things are good, and what
>     they do, and how to use them in real context?
>
>  4) As other peole have noted, there's no windows build readily
>     available for Postgres. There may be, but it's difficult to
>     find. If someone's used to running, say, Oracle, and all they
>     have is a windows machine to test something out on, MySQL has
>     compiled binaries ready to go.
>
>  5) I believe that this was noted as well somewhere along the line -
>     the other tools, like pgadmin III aren't readily available
>     either. They're excellent tools, and they should be quick to
>     find on the postgres website.
>
>  6) Bug tracking. I haven't really looked into how MySQL handles
>     this, but when learning about Postgres, I discovered that the
>     whole development model seemed kind of 'closed', and people on
>     the mailing lists would find bugs repeatedly. Something like
>     Bugzilla would be very helpful in this respect. I've been kind
>     of out of the loop for the past 6 months in this area, so it may
>     have changed since then.
>
>  7) The two Postgres books are available online for anyone to read
>     and download. They're there, but, to me, you have to notice them
>     on the sidebar to go to them. They're extremely helpful, and
>     they should be pointed out more.
>
>
> Most of these suggestions aren't really anything to do with the
> database itself. It's simply a re-organization of some of the
> information that's already available. As others have mentioned,
> 'it's about the PR'.
>
> Just my $.02 worth.
>
> Tim
>
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