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Updates to gborg site
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* Updates to gborg site
@ 2004-06-04 18:46  David Fetter <[email protected]>
  0 siblings, 2 replies; 11+ messages in thread

From: David Fetter @ 2004-06-04 18:46 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: pgsql-www

Kind people,

There are some things on the front page of gborg that need changing
pronto, namely the highlighting of the "pgreplication" project, which
hasn't been active in years.

Who can change it now, and can I get permission to fix it?

Thanks in advance :)

Cheers,
D
-- 
David Fetter [email protected] http://fetter.org/
phone: +1 510 893 6100   mobile: +1 415 235 3778

Remember to vote!



^ permalink  raw  reply  [nested|flat] 11+ messages in thread

* Re: Updates to gborg site
@ 2004-06-04 19:05  Robert Treat <[email protected]>
  parent: David Fetter <[email protected]>
  1 sibling, 1 reply; 11+ messages in thread

From: Robert Treat @ 2004-06-04 19:05 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: David Fetter <[email protected]>; +Cc: pgsql-www; [email protected]

ISTM there should also be a note about the new projects.postgresql.org
infrastructure and we should update the main www page as well, unless
there is a reason to hold off on that?  Josh, whats the story with the
foundries performance issues?

Robert Treat

On Fri, 2004-06-04 at 14:46, David Fetter wrote:
> Kind people,
> 
> There are some things on the front page of gborg that need changing
> pronto, namely the highlighting of the "pgreplication" project, which
> hasn't been active in years.
> 
> Who can change it now, and can I get permission to fix it?
> 
> Thanks in advance :)
> 
> Cheers,
> D
> -- 
> David Fetter [email protected] http://fetter.org/
> phone: +1 510 893 6100   mobile: +1 415 235 3778
> 
> Remember to vote!
> 
> ---------------------------(end of broadcast)---------------------------
> TIP 5: Have you checked our extensive FAQ?
> 
>                http://www.postgresql.org/docs/faqs/FAQ.html

-- 
Build A Brighter Lamp :: Linux Apache {middleware} PostgreSQL




^ permalink  raw  reply  [nested|flat] 11+ messages in thread

* Re: Updates to gborg site
@ 2004-06-04 20:33  Chris Ryan <[email protected]>
  parent: David Fetter <[email protected]>
  1 sibling, 1 reply; 11+ messages in thread

From: Chris Ryan @ 2004-06-04 20:33 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: David Fetter <[email protected]>; pgsql-www

    While it is within my capability to fudge the results of the Top
projects list I have not done so since the last time it was re-enabled
from the first move. Additionally while the pgreplication project
itself does not have the momentum it used to I am far from the believe
that is is an inactive project. Not to mention the fact that they have
done a good job of linking to some of the other replication based
projects that could be viewed as competitors.

    Ultimately I have no preference, except to let the system run as
inteded. I can alter the counts to bring up another project, slony1
perhaps, which would bump off the pgreplication project from the top
project list. However this wouldn't guarentee that it would stay that
way.

Chris Ryan

--- David Fetter <[email protected]> wrote:
> Kind people,
> 
> There are some things on the front page of gborg that need changing
> pronto, namely the highlighting of the "pgreplication" project, which
> hasn't been active in years.
> 
> Who can change it now, and can I get permission to fix it?
> 
> Thanks in advance :)
> 
> Cheers,
> D
> -- 
> David Fetter [email protected] http://fetter.org/
> phone: +1 510 893 6100   mobile: +1 415 235 3778
> 
> Remember to vote!
> 
> ---------------------------(end of
> broadcast)---------------------------
> TIP 5: Have you checked our extensive FAQ?
> 
>                http://www.postgresql.org/docs/faqs/FAQ.html



	
		
__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Friends.  Fun.  Try the all-new Yahoo! Messenger.
http://messenger.yahoo.com/ 



^ permalink  raw  reply  [nested|flat] 11+ messages in thread

* Re: Updates to gborg site
@ 2004-06-04 20:40  Josh Berkus <[email protected]>
  parent: Robert Treat <[email protected]>
  0 siblings, 2 replies; 11+ messages in thread

From: Josh Berkus @ 2004-06-04 20:40 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Robert Treat <[email protected]>; David Fetter <[email protected]>; +Cc: pgsql-www; [email protected]

Robert,

> ISTM there should also be a note about the new projects.postgresql.org
> infrastructure and we should update the main www page as well, unless
> there is a reason to hold off on that?  Josh, whats the story with the
> foundries performance issues?

Apparently pgFoundry shares hardware with some hub.org sites that regularly 
get hammered.    It's a little hard for us to tell -- we just have VM access.  
But the result is that pgFoundry is very sluggish already, and we don't want 
to drag a whole bunch of GBorg projects until we get it fixed.

The secondary issue is someone to help with it; I'm going to ask Tom Copeland, 
and if he can't I'll broadcast a request.   Andrew D. is burned out and I'm 
still sick.

-- 
-Josh Berkus
 Aglio Database Solutions
 San Francisco




^ permalink  raw  reply  [nested|flat] 11+ messages in thread

* Re: Updates to gborg site
@ 2004-06-04 21:42  Robert Treat <[email protected]>
  parent: Josh Berkus <[email protected]>
  1 sibling, 1 reply; 11+ messages in thread

From: Robert Treat @ 2004-06-04 21:42 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Josh Berkus <[email protected]>; +Cc: David Fetter <[email protected]>; pgsql-www; [email protected]

Do you have a list of the process involved in moving a given project? I
might be able to pitch in. (Given that I have such an extremely empty
plate.. hah!)

Robert Treat

On Fri, 2004-06-04 at 16:40, Josh Berkus wrote:
> Robert,
> 
> > ISTM there should also be a note about the new projects.postgresql.org
> > infrastructure and we should update the main www page as well, unless
> > there is a reason to hold off on that?  Josh, whats the story with the
> > foundries performance issues?
> 
> Apparently pgFoundry shares hardware with some hub.org sites that regularly 
> get hammered.    It's a little hard for us to tell -- we just have VM access.  
> But the result is that pgFoundry is very sluggish already, and we don't want 
> to drag a whole bunch of GBorg projects until we get it fixed.
> 
> The secondary issue is someone to help with it; I'm going to ask Tom Copeland, 
> and if he can't I'll broadcast a request.   Andrew D. is burned out and I'm 
> still sick.
> 
> -- 
> -Josh Berkus
>  Aglio Database Solutions
>  San Francisco
> 
> 
> ---------------------------(end of broadcast)---------------------------
> TIP 9: the planner will ignore your desire to choose an index scan if your
>       joining column's datatypes do not match
-- 
Build A Brighter Lamp :: Linux Apache {middleware} PostgreSQL




^ permalink  raw  reply  [nested|flat] 11+ messages in thread

* Re: Updates to gborg site
@ 2004-06-04 21:43  Robert Treat <[email protected]>
  parent: Chris Ryan <[email protected]>
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 11+ messages in thread

From: Robert Treat @ 2004-06-04 21:43 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Chris Ryan <[email protected]>; +Cc: David Fetter <[email protected]>; pgsql-www

I guess one would have to ask what the formula is for getting the
project into the top 5?  Surely slony has had more cvs activity going on
than pgreplicator, though I'd grant you that pgreplicator could have
more page views...

Robert Treat

On Fri, 2004-06-04 at 16:33, Chris Ryan wrote:
>     While it is within my capability to fudge the results of the Top
> projects list I have not done so since the last time it was re-enabled
> from the first move. Additionally while the pgreplication project
> itself does not have the momentum it used to I am far from the believe
> that is is an inactive project. Not to mention the fact that they have
> done a good job of linking to some of the other replication based
> projects that could be viewed as competitors.
> 
>     Ultimately I have no preference, except to let the system run as
> inteded. I can alter the counts to bring up another project, slony1
> perhaps, which would bump off the pgreplication project from the top
> project list. However this wouldn't guarentee that it would stay that
> way.
> 
> Chris Ryan
> 
> --- David Fetter <[email protected]> wrote:
> > Kind people,
> > 
> > There are some things on the front page of gborg that need changing
> > pronto, namely the highlighting of the "pgreplication" project, which
> > hasn't been active in years.
> > 
> > Who can change it now, and can I get permission to fix it?
> > 
> > Thanks in advance :)
> > 
> > Cheers,
> > D
> > -- 
> > David Fetter [email protected] http://fetter.org/
> > phone: +1 510 893 6100   mobile: +1 415 235 3778
> > 
> > Remember to vote!
> > 
> > ---------------------------(end of
> > broadcast)---------------------------
> > TIP 5: Have you checked our extensive FAQ?
> > 
> >                http://www.postgresql.org/docs/faqs/FAQ.html
> 
> 
> 
> 	
> 		
> __________________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Friends.  Fun.  Try the all-new Yahoo! Messenger.
> http://messenger.yahoo.com/ 
> 
> ---------------------------(end of broadcast)---------------------------
> TIP 3: if posting/reading through Usenet, please send an appropriate
>       subscribe-nomail command to [email protected] so that your
>       message can get through to the mailing list cleanly

-- 
Build A Brighter Lamp :: Linux Apache {middleware} PostgreSQL




^ permalink  raw  reply  [nested|flat] 11+ messages in thread

* Re: Updates to gborg site
@ 2004-06-05 00:40  Chris Ryan <[email protected]>
  parent: Robert Treat <[email protected]>
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 11+ messages in thread

From: Chris Ryan @ 2004-06-05 00:40 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Robert Treat <[email protected]>; +Cc: David Fetter <[email protected]>; pgsql-www

    The rank of a project has a direct correlation to the number of
page views a project receives over a period of time. The period of time
is from the last time the ranks were manually reset or scaled down.
This was a few months ago and I scaled the ranks.

Chris Ryan

--- Robert Treat <[email protected]> wrote:
> I guess one would have to ask what the formula is for getting the
> project into the top 5?  Surely slony has had more cvs activity going
> on
> than pgreplicator, though I'd grant you that pgreplicator could have
> more page views...
> 
> Robert Treat
> 
> On Fri, 2004-06-04 at 16:33, Chris Ryan wrote:
> >     While it is within my capability to fudge the results of the
> Top
> > projects list I have not done so since the last time it was
> re-enabled
> > from the first move. Additionally while the pgreplication project
> > itself does not have the momentum it used to I am far from the
> believe
> > that is is an inactive project. Not to mention the fact that they
> have
> > done a good job of linking to some of the other replication based
> > projects that could be viewed as competitors.
> > 
> >     Ultimately I have no preference, except to let the system run
> as
> > inteded. I can alter the counts to bring up another project, slony1
> > perhaps, which would bump off the pgreplication project from the
> top
> > project list. However this wouldn't guarentee that it would stay
> that
> > way.
> > 
> > Chris Ryan
> > 
> > --- David Fetter <[email protected]> wrote:
> > > Kind people,
> > > 
> > > There are some things on the front page of gborg that need
> changing
> > > pronto, namely the highlighting of the "pgreplication" project,
> which
> > > hasn't been active in years.
> > > 
> > > Who can change it now, and can I get permission to fix it?
> > > 
> > > Thanks in advance :)
> > > 
> > > Cheers,
> > > D
> > > -- 
> > > David Fetter [email protected] http://fetter.org/
> > > phone: +1 510 893 6100   mobile: +1 415 235 3778
> > > 
> > > Remember to vote!
> > > 
> > > ---------------------------(end of
> > > broadcast)---------------------------
> > > TIP 5: Have you checked our extensive FAQ?
> > > 
> > >                http://www.postgresql.org/docs/faqs/FAQ.html
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 	
> > 		
> > __________________________________
> > Do you Yahoo!?
> > Friends.  Fun.  Try the all-new Yahoo! Messenger.
> > http://messenger.yahoo.com/ 
> > 
> > ---------------------------(end of
> broadcast)---------------------------
> > TIP 3: if posting/reading through Usenet, please send an
> appropriate
> >       subscribe-nomail command to [email protected] so that
> your
> >       message can get through to the mailing list cleanly
> 
> -- 
> Build A Brighter Lamp :: Linux Apache {middleware} PostgreSQL
> 



	
		
__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Friends.  Fun.  Try the all-new Yahoo! Messenger.
http://messenger.yahoo.com/ 



^ permalink  raw  reply  [nested|flat] 11+ messages in thread

* Re: Updates to gborg site
@ 2004-06-05 13:57  Marc G. Fournier <[email protected]>
  parent: Josh Berkus <[email protected]>
  1 sibling, 0 replies; 11+ messages in thread

From: Marc G. Fournier @ 2004-06-05 13:57 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Josh Berkus <[email protected]>; +Cc: Robert Treat <[email protected]>; David Fetter <[email protected]>; pgsql-www; [email protected]

On Fri, 4 Jun 2004, Josh Berkus wrote:

> Robert,
>
>> ISTM there should also be a note about the new projects.postgresql.org
>> infrastructure and we should update the main www page as well, unless
>> there is a reason to hold off on that?  Josh, whats the story with the
>> foundries performance issues?
>
> Apparently pgFoundry shares hardware with some hub.org sites that 
> regularly get hammered.

Actually, the other way around ... there are two postgresql.org VMs on 
that machine (archives and pgfoundry) ... if there is a load spike on the 
machine, and I do a ps, I usually see one (or several) of the gforge cron 
jobs running in the top 10 ... or the mhonarc stuff on archives ...

Its the same with jupiter ... when load spikes, its usually majordomo 
processes that I see in the top 10 ...

I was hoping to pick up our first Dual-AMD about 3 weeks ago, but its been 
delayed while we wait for a cheque to arrive ...

----
Marc G. Fournier           Hub.Org Networking Services (http://www.hub.org)
Email: [email protected]           Yahoo!: yscrappy              ICQ: 7615664



^ permalink  raw  reply  [nested|flat] 11+ messages in thread

* Re: Updates to gborg site
@ 2004-06-05 14:00  Marc G. Fournier <[email protected]>
  parent: Robert Treat <[email protected]>
  0 siblings, 0 replies; 11+ messages in thread

From: Marc G. Fournier @ 2004-06-05 14:00 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Robert Treat <[email protected]>; +Cc: Josh Berkus <[email protected]>; David Fetter <[email protected]>; pgsql-www; [email protected]

On Fri, 4 Jun 2004, Robert Treat wrote:

> Do you have a list of the process involved in moving a given project? I
> might be able to pitch in. (Given that I have such an extremely empty
> plate.. hah!)

The idea is (was?) to make it as transparent as possible ... so, there is 
some database conversions that have to be made, namely for the bug 
tracking system(s), then the mailman archives and CVSROOTs have to be 
physically moved over ...

There was a script written that handled all of the backend/database stuff 
... and the physical moving of files is a simple scp from gborg -> gforge 
into the write directories ...

----
Marc G. Fournier           Hub.Org Networking Services (http://www.hub.org)
Email: [email protected]           Yahoo!: yscrappy              ICQ: 7615664



^ permalink  raw  reply  [nested|flat] 11+ messages in thread

* Re: Updates to gborg site
@ 2004-06-08 15:35  Robert Treat <[email protected]>
  parent: Chris Ryan <[email protected]>
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 11+ messages in thread

From: Robert Treat @ 2004-06-08 15:35 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Chris Ryan <[email protected]>; +Cc: David Fetter <[email protected]>; pgsql-www

Can we reset the stats again then? There is grumblings that the top 5 is
looking stale and I tend to agree. If it's not these projects will float
back to the top anyways.

Robert Treat

On Fri, 2004-06-04 at 20:40, Chris Ryan wrote:
>     The rank of a project has a direct correlation to the number of
> page views a project receives over a period of time. The period of time
> is from the last time the ranks were manually reset or scaled down.
> This was a few months ago and I scaled the ranks.
> 
> Chris Ryan
> 
> --- Robert Treat <[email protected]> wrote:
> > I guess one would have to ask what the formula is for getting the
> > project into the top 5?  Surely slony has had more cvs activity going
> > on
> > than pgreplicator, though I'd grant you that pgreplicator could have
> > more page views...
> > 
> > Robert Treat
> > 
> > On Fri, 2004-06-04 at 16:33, Chris Ryan wrote:
> > >     While it is within my capability to fudge the results of the
> > Top
> > > projects list I have not done so since the last time it was
> > re-enabled
> > > from the first move. Additionally while the pgreplication project
> > > itself does not have the momentum it used to I am far from the
> > believe
> > > that is is an inactive project. Not to mention the fact that they
> > have
> > > done a good job of linking to some of the other replication based
> > > projects that could be viewed as competitors.
> > > 
> > >     Ultimately I have no preference, except to let the system run
> > as
> > > inteded. I can alter the counts to bring up another project, slony1
> > > perhaps, which would bump off the pgreplication project from the
> > top
> > > project list. However this wouldn't guarentee that it would stay
> > that
> > > way.
> > > 
> > > Chris Ryan
> > > 
> > > --- David Fetter <[email protected]> wrote:
> > > > Kind people,
> > > > 
> > > > There are some things on the front page of gborg that need
> > changing
> > > > pronto, namely the highlighting of the "pgreplication" project,
> > which
> > > > hasn't been active in years.
> > > > 
> > > > Who can change it now, and can I get permission to fix it?
> > > > 
> > > > Thanks in advance :)
> > > > 
> > > > Cheers,
> > > > D
> > > > -- 
> > > > David Fetter [email protected] http://fetter.org/
> > > > phone: +1 510 893 6100   mobile: +1 415 235 3778
> > > > 
> > > > Remember to vote!
> > > > 
> > > > ---------------------------(end of
> > > > broadcast)---------------------------
> > > > TIP 5: Have you checked our extensive FAQ?
> > > > 
> > > >                http://www.postgresql.org/docs/faqs/FAQ.html
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 	
> > > 		
> > > __________________________________
> > > Do you Yahoo!?
> > > Friends.  Fun.  Try the all-new Yahoo! Messenger.
> > > http://messenger.yahoo.com/ 
> > > 
> > > ---------------------------(end of
> > broadcast)---------------------------
> > > TIP 3: if posting/reading through Usenet, please send an
> > appropriate
> > >       subscribe-nomail command to [email protected] so that
> > your
> > >       message can get through to the mailing list cleanly
> > 
> > -- 
> > Build A Brighter Lamp :: Linux Apache {middleware} PostgreSQL
> > 
> 
> 
> 
> 	
> 		
> __________________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Friends.  Fun.  Try the all-new Yahoo! Messenger.
> http://messenger.yahoo.com/ 
> 
> ---------------------------(end of broadcast)---------------------------
> TIP 3: if posting/reading through Usenet, please send an appropriate
>       subscribe-nomail command to [email protected] so that your
>       message can get through to the mailing list cleanly
-- 
Build A Brighter Lamp :: Linux Apache {middleware} PostgreSQL




^ permalink  raw  reply  [nested|flat] 11+ messages in thread

* Re: Updates to gborg site
@ 2004-06-08 16:19  Chris Ryan <[email protected]>
  parent: Robert Treat <[email protected]>
  0 siblings, 0 replies; 11+ messages in thread

From: Chris Ryan @ 2004-06-08 16:19 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Robert Treat <[email protected]>; +Cc: David Fetter <[email protected]>; pgsql-www

Robert,

    I have drastically scalled the rankings on the projects. This has
put the project more or less on even footing.

Chris Ryan

--- Robert Treat <[email protected]> wrote:
> Can we reset the stats again then? There is grumblings that the top 5
> is
> looking stale and I tend to agree. If it's not these projects will
> float
> back to the top anyways.
> 
> Robert Treat
> 
> On Fri, 2004-06-04 at 20:40, Chris Ryan wrote:
> >     The rank of a project has a direct correlation to the number of
> > page views a project receives over a period of time. The period of
> time
> > is from the last time the ranks were manually reset or scaled down.
> > This was a few months ago and I scaled the ranks.
> > 
> > Chris Ryan
> > 
> > --- Robert Treat <[email protected]> wrote:
> > > I guess one would have to ask what the formula is for getting the
> > > project into the top 5?  Surely slony has had more cvs activity
> going
> > > on
> > > than pgreplicator, though I'd grant you that pgreplicator could
> have
> > > more page views...
> > > 
> > > Robert Treat
> > > 
> > > On Fri, 2004-06-04 at 16:33, Chris Ryan wrote:
> > > >     While it is within my capability to fudge the results of
> the
> > > Top
> > > > projects list I have not done so since the last time it was
> > > re-enabled
> > > > from the first move. Additionally while the pgreplication
> project
> > > > itself does not have the momentum it used to I am far from the
> > > believe
> > > > that is is an inactive project. Not to mention the fact that
> they
> > > have
> > > > done a good job of linking to some of the other replication
> based
> > > > projects that could be viewed as competitors.
> > > > 
> > > >     Ultimately I have no preference, except to let the system
> run
> > > as
> > > > inteded. I can alter the counts to bring up another project,
> slony1
> > > > perhaps, which would bump off the pgreplication project from
> the
> > > top
> > > > project list. However this wouldn't guarentee that it would
> stay
> > > that
> > > > way.
> > > > 
> > > > Chris Ryan
> > > > 
> > > > --- David Fetter <[email protected]> wrote:
> > > > > Kind people,
> > > > > 
> > > > > There are some things on the front page of gborg that need
> > > changing
> > > > > pronto, namely the highlighting of the "pgreplication"
> project,
> > > which
> > > > > hasn't been active in years.
> > > > > 
> > > > > Who can change it now, and can I get permission to fix it?
> > > > > 
> > > > > Thanks in advance :)
> > > > > 
> > > > > Cheers,
> > > > > D
> > > > > -- 
> > > > > David Fetter [email protected] http://fetter.org/
> > > > > phone: +1 510 893 6100   mobile: +1 415 235 3778
> > > > > 
> > > > > Remember to vote!
> > > > > 
> > > > > ---------------------------(end of
> > > > > broadcast)---------------------------
> > > > > TIP 5: Have you checked our extensive FAQ?
> > > > > 
> > > > >                http://www.postgresql.org/docs/faqs/FAQ.html
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > 	
> > > > 		
> > > > __________________________________
> > > > Do you Yahoo!?
> > > > Friends.  Fun.  Try the all-new Yahoo! Messenger.
> > > > http://messenger.yahoo.com/ 
> > > > 
> > > > ---------------------------(end of
> > > broadcast)---------------------------
> > > > TIP 3: if posting/reading through Usenet, please send an
> > > appropriate
> > > >       subscribe-nomail command to [email protected] so
> that
> > > your
> > > >       message can get through to the mailing list cleanly
> > > 
> > > -- 
> > > Build A Brighter Lamp :: Linux Apache {middleware} PostgreSQL
> > > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 	
> > 		
> > __________________________________
> > Do you Yahoo!?
> > Friends.  Fun.  Try the all-new Yahoo! Messenger.
> > http://messenger.yahoo.com/ 
> > 
> > ---------------------------(end of
> broadcast)---------------------------
> > TIP 3: if posting/reading through Usenet, please send an
> appropriate
> >       subscribe-nomail command to [email protected] so that
> your
> >       message can get through to the mailing list cleanly
> -- 
> Build A Brighter Lamp :: Linux Apache {middleware} PostgreSQL
> 



	
		
__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Friends.  Fun.  Try the all-new Yahoo! Messenger.
http://messenger.yahoo.com/ 




^ permalink  raw  reply  [nested|flat] 11+ messages in thread


end of thread, other threads:[~2004-06-08 16:19 UTC | newest]

Thread overview: 11+ messages (download: mbox mbox.gz follow: Atom feed)
-- links below jump to the message on this page --
2004-06-04 18:46 Updates to gborg site David Fetter <[email protected]>
2004-06-04 19:05 ` Robert Treat <[email protected]>
2004-06-04 20:40   ` Josh Berkus <[email protected]>
2004-06-04 21:42     ` Robert Treat <[email protected]>
2004-06-05 14:00       ` Marc G. Fournier <[email protected]>
2004-06-05 13:57     ` Marc G. Fournier <[email protected]>
2004-06-04 20:33 ` Chris Ryan <[email protected]>
2004-06-04 21:43   ` Robert Treat <[email protected]>
2004-06-05 00:40     ` Chris Ryan <[email protected]>
2004-06-08 15:35       ` Robert Treat <[email protected]>
2004-06-08 16:19         ` Chris Ryan <[email protected]>

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