From: Josh Berkus <josh@agliodbs.com>
Reply-To: josh@agliodbs.com
Organization: Aglio Database Solutions
To: pgsql-www@postgresql.org
Subject: Re: Vote on Omar Design
Date: Fri, 19 Nov 2004 11:07:44 -0800
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Alexey, Robert,

> I'd like to point out that the design we have now [1] is adequate, while
> the content is not. I'd also like to remind that the new site was made ea=
sy
> to skin, so applying the newer design will take a small amount of time.
> Fixing and porting the content will take a much longer time, though.
>
> Therefore, I'm willing to support Omar's design, but *after* the content
> fixing and porting work is finished. This work may continue even in the
> current design.

I was under the impression that porting the content to Lucasz' design, putt=
ing=20
it up, applying Omar's design, and then re-arranging the content to fit=20
Omar's design, was much more work than just doing Omar's design.   Was I=20
mistaken?

And Omar has already ported part of the content to his design as an example=
,=20
and is willing to do more.    It would be one thing if you'd said that=20
Lucasz' design was the only way we'd get a new site up by 8.0, but you've n=
ot=20
said that ... so both options seem to be equivalent, and Omar's is the bett=
er=20
looking design, at least I've not seen anyone say otherwise.

> Why do I feel I am in the middle of some political power grab? =A0

There's power to grab?   I never noticed.   All this time .... Off with the=
ir=20
heads!   Oh, it feels so good.   ;->

> Omar has=20
> been submitting patches which are being reviewed and getting committed
> so things seem ok there.

Yes, but Omar splitting his time between his design and Lucasz's is far les=
s=20
effective than Omar working full time on his design.

> I have already laid out a case for problems in=20
> Lukacz's design that I don't see anyone interested in addressing, but by
> the same token I still have not seen a "stretchy" version of Omar's
> design which we have said we need to see before we can swap.=20

Who's "we"?   I don't recall a spec document anywhere that says that the=20
design has to be "stretchy", nor do I recall any discussion on this list to=
=20
that effect.   Maybe my memory is faulty, give me a link.

Robert, I can recall a period last year where you were justifiably very ang=
ry=20
at Core for making decisions and refusing to discuss the reasons publically=
=2E =20
Now you are doing the same; saying that you have a right to guide the web=20
site because you, Dave, Alexey and Devrim do most of the work (which you do=
)=20
and that you don't have to discuss your reasons with anyone.    While the=20
former is justifiable, the latter is not.   Not when Core does it, and not=
=20
when you do it.

You may have very good reasons, but you've not expressed them anywhere I ca=
n=20
read them.   So if you do, then open up.

=46rom my perspective:
1) Omar's design is undeniably better-looking and easier to navigate than=20
Lucasz's;
2) Porting to Omar's design rather than Lucasz's will make no difference in=
=20
the go-live time of the web site;
3) Omar has demonstrated that he will be around to help with the port, whic=
h I=20
don't think Lucasz is (since www-committers has no public archive, I can't=
=20
tell if Lucasz has been helping quietly in the background).

If either of these points is debatable, then let's talk them out.   But so =
far=20
I've not seen a single statement from you, Dave, or Alexey contradicting an=
y=20
of the above.

> These calls=20
> for voting are just hand-waving IMHO.

No, it's a vote on what we want Omar and others to work on; patching Lucasz=
's=20
design or porting to his own.   I vote the latter -- unless, of course, you=
=20
want to argue the 3 points above.

=2D-=20
=2D-Josh

Josh Berkus
Aglio Database Solutions
San Francisco