Subject: Re: About docbot

From: "Joshua D. Drake" <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2006 17:31:07 -0700

Hello,

What do we think about the below guys?

Andreas 'ads' Scherbaum wrote:
> 
> Hello Joshua,
> 
> we talked today about a docbot subdomain.
> The current situation is, that pg_docbot (more precise his instance
> pg_docbot_ads) is on 10 PostgreSQL channels. Now we would like to
> implement a web interface for the bot to show some information and
> to have a search form which would give back results from the same
> database the bot is using.
> 
> Picking up your idea from earlier today i would like to ask you, if
> it is possible to get a subdomain like docbot.postgresql.org pointing
> to the server the bot is running on.
> 
> Thank you for your help.
> 
> 
> Kind regards
> 

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---

From: "Gavin M. Roy" <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2006 17:41:58 -0700

Sounds iffy to me.   Lending the hostname makes this an official (or  
officially endorsed) thing.  Would it be branded and such the same as  
the main website?  Would core www- team people have access to it such  
as Dave, Magnus, Robert etc?  How is content controlled and would we  
have any ability to make sure the image and content agrees with how  
the project presents itself?  I pm'ed the bot and it didn't respond  
to me so I'm not sure exactly the context of what it does, but if  
it's like rtfm_please, I don't know what it offers that the  
documentation section of the main site doesn't offer.

I don't want to rain on anyones parade, just offering my 2 cents.

Gavin

On Sep 21, 2006, at 5:31 PM, Joshua D. Drake wrote:

> ---------------------------(end of  
> broadcast)---------------------------
> TIP 6: explain analyze is your friend

---

From: David Fetter <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2006 19:10:52 -0700

On Thu, Sep 21, 2006 at 05:41:58PM -0700, Gavin M. Roy wrote:

> officially endorsed) thing.  Would it be branded and such the same
> as  the main website?

Not necessarily.  The current (non-working) site on pgfoundry looks
like this:

    http://docbot.projects.postgresql.org/

Just to be clear, no one has suggested that this include write
operations.  The known ways to write to that the keyword search are:

1.  Be an identified user on freenode and in the docbot's list of
authorized users.

2.  Directly execute SQL on its database.

I'd recommend against adding more write methods.

> Would core www- team people have access to it such as Dave, Magnus,
> Robert etc?

If they really want it.  I have commit bits on -www, and already have
write access as above.

> How is content controlled and would we have any ability to make sure
> the image and content agrees with how the project presents itself?

So far (3 years, give or take) there have been just two controversial
URLs: one for fsm which pointed to venganza.org, which I removed at
Jan Wieck's request on grounds of its political nature, and one for
google which contains an unromantic Saxon-derived word denoting
lovemaking, which is still there as far as I know.

> I pm'ed the bot and it didn't respond to me

pg_docbot takes commands in pm phrased precisely as you would phrase
them in channel.

> so I'm not sure exactly the context of what it does, but if it's
> like rtfm_please, I don't know what it offers that the documentation
> section of the main site doesn't offer.

It offers keyword searches that people have found useful.  People
frequently paste docbot responses into the -general mailing list.

> I don't want to rain on anyones parade, just offering my 2 cents.

Thanks for helping clarify the situation :)

Cheers,
D

-- 
David Fetter <[email-masked]> http://fetter.org/
phone: +1 415 235 3778        AIM: dfetter666
                              Skype: davidfetter

Remember to vote!

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From: "Magnus Hagander" <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 22 Sep 2006 13:08:20 +0200

> > the main website?

Also, we have been working hard to *decrease* the number of distinct
websites in the PostgreSQL domain. So please let's try to avoid adding
another one if we can.

Now, *assuming* this is a service that we want on the main site (I'm not
taking position on that yet, but it does seem pretty nifty), wouldn't
the logical place be to have it on http://search.postgresql.org, along
with the standard search?

Maybe even to the point of delivering docbot search results at the top
of the results, over the general search ones, based on the fact that
it's common keyword searching.

Where does it actually *live* today? Meaning where is the database
located, where does the IRC bot run, etc?

> lovemaking, which is still there as far as I know.

Given that it's not open-access-write, I don't see how this would be any
more different than other content we have - we have even less control
over what goes into http://archives.postgresql.org for example, and we
can always do post-case cleanups.

//Magnus

---

From: David Fetter <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 22 Sep 2006 08:00:22 -0700

On Fri, Sep 22, 2006 at 01:08:20PM +0200, Magnus Hagander wrote:
> > > Sounds iffy to me.   Lending the hostname makes this an official
> > > (or officially endorsed) thing.  Would it be branded and such
> > > the same as the main website?
> 
> websites in the PostgreSQL domain. So please let's try to avoid
> adding another one if we can.
> 
> Now, *assuming* this is a service that we want on the main site (I'm
> not taking position on that yet, but it does seem pretty nifty),
> wouldn't the logical place be to have it on
> http://search.postgresql.org, along with the standard search?

That sounds like a plan :)

> Maybe even to the point of delivering docbot search results at the
> top of the results, over the general search ones, based on the fact
> that it's common keyword searching.

Integrating it would be nice, too. :)

> located, where does the IRC bot run, etc?

Daniel (Primer) Ceregatti hosts the database on sh.nu, and Andreas
(ads) Scherbaum hosts the bot code on base.wars-nicht.de.  Both could
change if needed.

> > > How is content controlled and would we have any ability to make
> > > sure the image and content agrees with how the project presents
> > > itself?
> > 
> > So far (3 years, give or take) there have been just two
> > controversial URLs: one for fsm which pointed to venganza.org,
> > which I removed at Jan Wieck's request on grounds of its political
> > nature, and one for google which contains an unromantic
> > Saxon-derived word denoting lovemaking, which is still there as
> > far as I know.
> 
> Given that it's not open-access-write, I don't see how this would be
> any more different than other content we have - we have even less
> control over what goes into http://archives.postgresql.org for
> example, and we can always do post-case cleanups.
> 
> 
> //Magnus

Remember to vote!

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From: "Joshua D. Drake" <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 22 Sep 2006 08:08:34 -0700

Magnus Hagander wrote:
>> (or

Oh that is interesting... we could certainly do that.

Joshua D. Drake

--

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From: "Magnus Hagander" <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 27 Sep 2006 09:47:26 +0200

> (ads) Scherbaum hosts the bot code on base.wars-nicht.de.  
> Both could change if needed.

Ok. Methinks that if we want to stick it on our search website, the
database needs to be moved to that machine. We could of course just set
up a Slony replica of it, I don't suppose it gets a lot of write
traffic?

I'd really like to hear the input from some of the others on the web
team as well :-) I think it sounds like a good idea in principle, but
there are others... ,)

//Magnus

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From: Andreas 'ads' Scherbaum <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 27 Sep 2006 11:01:50 +0200 (CEST)

> up a Slony replica of it, I don't suppose it gets a lot of write

This could be the test setup for Slony, David Fetter is always
talking about ;-)
And no, write traffic is marginal. Just if someone changes a dataset.

> team as well :-) I think it sounds like a good idea in principle, but

Good point, i like the idea.

Kind regards

-- 
 				Andreas 'ads' Scherbaum
<Shadda> Explaining the concept of referential integrity to a mysql user is
          like explaining condoms to a catholic

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From: David Fetter <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 27 Sep 2006 14:30:06 -0700

On Wed, Sep 27, 2006 at 09:47:26AM +0200, Magnus Hagander wrote:
> > > Where does it actually *live* today? Meaning where is the
> > > database located, where does the IRC bot run, etc?
> > 
> > (ads) Scherbaum hosts the bot code on base.wars-nicht.de.  Both
> > could change if needed.
> 
> database needs to be moved to that machine. We could of course just
> set up a Slony replica of it, I don't suppose it gets a lot of write
> traffic?

It gets so little write traffic that it would make a great testbed for
a multi-master replication system :)

Cheers,
D

Remember to vote!

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From: Robert Treat <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 27 Sep 2006 21:14:29 -0400

> team as well :-) I think it sounds like a good idea in principle, but
http://archives.postgresql.org/pgsql-www/2006-08/msg00019.php

-- 
Robert Treat
Build A Brighter LAMP :: Linux Apache {middleware} PostgreSQL

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From: Andreas 'ads' Scherbaum <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 9 Oct 2006 01:43:54 +0200

On Wed, 27 Sep 2006 09:47:26 +0200
"Magnus Hagander" <[email-masked]> wrote:

Hello everyone,

> team as well :-) I think it sounds like a good idea in principle, but

ok, what about this topic?
The consens sounded to me like using slony to replicate the bot db
to the website and display a prominent result set on top of the search
site.

Any intentions to move forward?

Kind regards

-- 
				Andreas 'ads' Scherbaum
Failure is not an option. It comes bundled with your Microsoft product.
 (Ferenc Mantfeld)

---

From: "Dave Page" <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 9 Oct 2006 08:28:26 +0100

> -----Original Message-----
> From: [email-masked] 
> [mailto:[email-masked]] On Behalf Of Andreas 
> 'ads' Scherbaum
> Sent: 09 October 2006 00:44
> To: Magnus Hagander
> Cc: [email-masked]; [email-masked]; [email-masked]; 
> [email-masked]; [email-masked]
> Subject: Re: [pgsql-www] About docbot
> 

Yes, I think so - but it's not going to happen overnight as the search
engine needs to be rewritten first. This is progressing very well, but
isn't there just yet.

Regards, Dave.

---

From: Robert Treat <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 9 Oct 2006 22:17:11 -0400

On Monday 09 October 2006 03:28, Dave Page wrote:
> > > team as well :-) I think it sounds like a good idea in
> >
> > principle, but
> >
> > > there are others... ,)
> >

Dave, whats your opinion on moving the database completly onto the 
postgresql.org server and doing away with the slony replication bit (which 
seems like overkill imho)  We could then grant access to bots that need it or 
provide a full fledged web api to people who want to interface with it. The 
one thing I am wondering is that this would in theory be a higher load than 
the current website gives, since all requests would run through the db.

---

From: "Joshua D. Drake" <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 09 Oct 2006 20:06:39 -0700

> the current website gives, since all requests would run through the db. 

Actually not to worried about this one. I can always beef up the machine.

Sincerely,

Joshua D. Drake

--

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From: "Dave Page" <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2006 08:31:39 +0100

> From: Robert Treat [mailto:[email-masked]] 
> Sent: 10 October 2006 03:17
> To: [email-masked]
> Cc: Dave Page; Andreas 'ads' Scherbaum; Magnus Hagander; 
> [email-masked]; [email-masked]; [email-masked]; [email-masked]

That does sound like a better idea to me... though it should go on the
search server, not borg  because it'll generally be used with the search
engine. I assume the load is likely to be far less than the GIN/Tsearch
engine that Magnus is currently developing?

Regards Dave

---

From: Andreas 'ads' Scherbaum <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2007 19:53:14 +0100

On Mon, 9 Oct 2006 01:43:54 +0200
Andreas 'ads' Scherbaum <[email-masked]> wrote:

Hello all,

> Any intentions to move forward?

We just had the discussion on IRC and i was told to remind -www about
this question ;-) Is there anything we can use or setup right now?

Kind regards

---

From: "Joshua D. Drake" <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2007 11:14:55 -0800

> this question ;-) Is there anything we can use or setup right now?

I thought Robert Treat was working on this?

Joshua D. Drake

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