Subject: Email issues unanswered

From: Bruce Momjian <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2007 16:25:51 -0500 (EST)

I have had two email issues in the past few weeks, with no replies.

First, I would a fix for the bug that multi-line subjects are truncated
to their first line.

Second, why is the patches list showing a lowercase bracket tag all of a
sudden?

-- 
  Bruce Momjian   [email-masked]
  EnterpriseDB    http://www.enterprisedb.com

  + If your life is a hard drive, Christ can be your backup. +

---

From: "Marc G. Fournier" <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2007 17:46:34 -0400

> First, I would a fix for the bug that multi-line subjects are truncated

Which is correct according to the RFCs ... let me check if there is a way of 
'disabling the RFCs' for this, but Mj2 tends to try and be very RFC compliant 
by default ...

> Second, why is the patches list showing a lowercase bracket tag all of a

All the lists do, and always have ... I just checked my digests folder, and all 
the lists show lower case ...

- ----
Marc G. Fournier           Hub.Org Networking Services (http://www.hub.org)
Email . [email-masked]                              MSN . [email-masked]
Yahoo . yscrappy               Skype: hub.org        ICQ . 7615664

---

From: "Marc G. Fournier" <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2007 17:52:59 -0400

> First, I would a fix for the bug that multi-line subjects are truncated

Can you email an example of what you are seeing?  I just went through one of 
the recent -hackers digests, and found at least one occurance where the subject 
span'd more then one line ... it may just be that mulberry 'shorts' the subject 
line so did an auto-wrapping on its own, so would like to see an example of 
what you are seeing ...

- ----

---

From: Andrew Sullivan <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2007 17:35:29 -0500

On Mon, Jan 29, 2007 at 05:46:34PM -0400, Marc G. Fournier wrote:
> Which is correct according to the RFCs 

Well, that depends on what you mean by "multi-line".  If what you
mean is "has a CRLF embedded in it to begin with", then I think
you're correct, because RFC 2822 section 2.2.3 says

   Each header field is logically a single line of characters
   comprising the field name, the colon, and the field body.

_But_ if you mean "too long for the standard 78 characters per line",
though, you're mistaken.  Please see RFC 2822 section 2.2.3 for more.

Andrew "RFC weenie" Sullivan

-- 
Andrew Sullivan  | [email-masked]
Information security isn't a technological problem.  It's an economics
problem.
		--Bruce Schneier

---

From: Bruce Momjian <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2007 17:45:26 -0500 (EST)

Marc G. Fournier wrote:
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA1
> 
> 
> 

Uh, Andrew Sullivan, Mr. RFC, says multi-line subjects are fine per RFC:

	http://archives.postgresql.org/pgsql-www/2006-12/msg00147.php

> the lists show lower case ...

Huh?  I am talking about the subject tag, not the actual email address.
For example, here is "[HACKERS]" in the subject:

	http://archives.postgresql.org/pgsql-patches/2007-01/msg00534.php

Here is patches uppercase "[PATCHES]":

	http://archives.postgresql.org/pgsql-patches/2007-01/msg00468.php

and here is patches lowercase in the subject "[pgsql-patches]":

	http://archives.postgresql.org/pgsql-hackers/2007-01/msg01514.php

Sometimes it is uppercase, sometimes lower.  I think the advocacy list
has a similar problem.

---

From: Bruce Momjian <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2007 17:53:05 -0500 (EST)

> line so did an auto-wrapping on its own, so would like to see an example of 

Sure, just had one an hour ago.  Check out this thread and where I
reply, the subject is shortened because my emailer sends it out as
multi-line:

	http://archives.postgresql.org/pgsql-general/2007-01/msg01725.php

It took us quite a while to figure it out.  I think Alvaro found it.

---

From: Bruce Momjian <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2007 18:11:38 -0500 (EST)

> though, you're mistaken.  Please see RFC 2822 section 2.2.3 for more.

My long subject email going out looks like:

	From bruce Fri Jan 26 21:00:37 2007
	Subject: Re: [GENERAL] Predicted lifespan of different PostgreSQL
	        branches
	In-Reply-To: <[email-masked]>
	To: Devrim GUNDUZ <[email-masked]>
	Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2007 10:05:33 -0500 (EST)
	cc: Dave Page <[email-masked]>, Bill Moran <[email-masked]>, [email-masked]
	X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL123]
	MIME-Version: 1.0
	Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
	Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
	Content-Length:   797

---

From: Bruce Momjian <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2007 18:13:27 -0500 (EST)

> 	Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"

Oh, and if I bounce this to my gmail account, it looks fine.

---

From: "Marc G. Fournier" <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2007 19:14:20 -0400

> It took us quite a while to figure it out.  I think Alvaro found it.

'k, if that is your example, then the 'truncation' is being done somewhere 
else, as long subjects are getting through Majordomo2 just fine:

<http://archives.postgresql.org/pgsql-general/2007-01/msg00119.php>

"Subject: Pure PostgreSQL unit tests - test and debug pgsql constraints and 
procedures/functions"

The subject part is 87 characters long, so its not being wrapped at 80 
characters ... and your sample is only 47 characters, which would be a *really* 
weird truncation point ...

Back to the drawing board ... its not Majordomo2, and its not Mhonarc ...

- ----

---

From: Bruce Momjian <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2007 18:19:44 -0500 (EST)

> Back to the drawing board ... its not Majordomo2, and its not Mhonarc ...

Yea, the problem is that my mailer is wrapping the subjects >80
characters, but upstream somewhere the wrap lines are being removed ---
only the first line is being kept.

I can change mail mailer, but Andrew says it should work.

---

From: "Marc G. Fournier" <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2007 19:19:54 -0400

> 	Subject: Re: [GENERAL] Predicted lifespan of different PostgreSQL

Looks like something has add a carriage return at the end of PostgreSQL, which 
breaks the RFC ... if it was all one line (as per the RFC quote that Andrew 
sent), it wouldn't have gone through (as per the valid long Subject that I just 
sent to you) ...

You are talking about 'multi line' (against RFCs) vs 'long subjects that wrap' 
(not against RFCs) ...

- ----

---

From: "Marc G. Fournier" <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2007 19:23:47 -0400

> I can change mail mailer, but Andrew says it should work.

Your mailer is not wrapping, it is adding a CRLF ... Majordomo treads:

Subject: ...<CRLF>

as a valid subject ... everything after the CRLF is considered a seperate (and, 
invalid) header so strips it from the message ... from the RFC quote that 
Andrew posted, this sounds to me to be perfect valid ...

- ----

---

From: Bruce Momjian <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2007 18:36:55 -0500 (EST)

> breaks the RFC ... if it was all one line (as per the RFC quote that Andrew 

Yes, my emaler does that, but see below on the RFC issue.

> You are talking about 'multi line' (against RFCs) vs 'long subjects that wrap' 

Right, I am talking about multi-line, and here is the RFC part Andrew
mentioned:

  2.2.3. Long Header Fields

   Each header field is logically a single line of characters comprising
   the field name, the colon, and the field body.  For convenience
   however, and to deal with the 998/78 character limitations per line,
   the field body portion of a header field can be split into a multiple
   line representation; this is called "folding".  The general rule is

   that wherever this standard allows for folding white space (not
   simply WSP characters), a CRLF may be inserted before any WSP.  For
   example, the header field:

           Subject: This is a test

   can be represented as:

           Subject: This
            is a test

   Note: Though structured field bodies are defined in such a way that
   folding can take place between many of the lexical tokens (and even
   within some of the lexical tokens), folding SHOULD be limited to
   placing the CRLF at higher-level syntactic breaks.  For instance, if
   a field body is defined as comma-separated values, it is recommended
   that folding occur after the comma separating the structured items in
   preference to other places where the field could be folded, even if
   it is allowed elsewhere.

   The process of moving from this folded multiple-line representation
   of a header field to its single line representation is called
   "unfolding". Unfolding is accomplished by simply removing any CRLF
   that is immediately followed by WSP.  Each header field should be
   treated in its unfolded form for further syntactic and semantic
   evaluation.

It seems clear here that my emailer is fine and following the RFC.

---

From: Bruce Momjian <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2007 18:37:27 -0500 (EST)

> Andrew posted, this sounds to me to be perfect valid ...

Nope, see email I just sent with the RFC section copied.

---

From: "Marc G. Fournier" <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2007 22:06:46 -0400

Even while discussing this, I sent an emamil off to one of the Mj2 developers, 
and apparently they did make some changes from the past thread, that I didn't 
know of ... seems that Alvarro talked to them, but nobody let *me* know to 
upgrade our Mj2 :(

Working on that now ... we'll see if that fixes it ... will post a follow up 
once its been upgraded ...

- --On Monday, January 29, 2007 18:36:55 -0500 Bruce Momjian <[email-masked]> 
wrote:

>> - --On Monday, January 29, 2007 18:11:38 -0500 Bruce Momjian
>> <[email-masked]>  wrote:
>>
>> Looks like something has add a carriage return at the end of PostgreSQL,
>> which  breaks the RFC ... if it was all one line (as per the RFC quote that
>> Andrew
>
>> sent), it wouldn't have gone through (as per the valid long Subject that I
>> just  sent to you) ...
>>
>> You are talking about 'multi line' (against RFCs) vs 'long subjects that
>> wrap'  (not against RFCs) ...
>

- ----

---

From: Andrew Sullivan <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2007 07:56:37 -0500

On Mon, Jan 29, 2007 at 06:19:44PM -0500, Bruce Momjian wrote:
> characters, 

Well, they _should_ be wrapped at 78 characters.  2822 is pretty
clear that the way to wrap that is by inserting a single CRLF, and
the way to collapse it back is to remove every CRLF followed by
whitespace.  (This is the reason that putting your own CRLF in the
subject line is not allowed; I know of 0 MUAs that allow you to put
one in.)
> I can change mail mailer, but Andrew says it should work.

My bet is that it won't make any difference, too.

A

-- 
Andrew Sullivan  | [email-masked]
"The year's penultimate month" is not in truth a good way of saying
November.
		--H.W. Fowler

---

From: Andrew Sullivan <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2007 08:01:57 -0500

> Yes, my emaler does that, but see below on the RFC issue.

So long as it leaves the white space after the CRLF, it's legit.  If
there is no white space following the CRLF, then it'll break.

In other words, this

Here
 is
  a
 sample

will work.  But this

Here
is
a
broken  whitespace follows             
sample

will not.

I always thought I shoulda become a lawyer.  Now we have proof :-/

-- 
Andrew Sullivan  | [email-masked]
If they don't do anything, we don't need their acronym.
		--Josh Hamilton, on the US FEMA