Subject: Split ftp distributions

From: Bruce Momjian <[email-masked]>
Date: Sun, 25 Nov 2007 22:51:42 -0500 (EST)

Our snapshots are still split into multiple subpackages:

	http://www.postgresql.org/ftp/dev/

I assume there should be just one like we are doing with the main
downloads.  Or is this something we are just doing with betas and 8.3?

	http://www.postgresql.org/ftp/source/v8.3beta3/

-- 
  Bruce Momjian  <[email-masked]>        http://momjian.us
  EnterpriseDB                             http://postgres.enterprisedb.com

  + If your life is a hard drive, Christ can be your backup. +

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From: Bruce Momjian <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 6 Mar 2008 16:50:45 -0500 (EST)

Bruce Momjian wrote:
>                http://www.postgresql.org/docs/faq

Would someone please fix this too.

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From: Bruce Momjian <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 6 Mar 2008 16:55:01 -0500 (EST)

> Would someone please fix this too.

Another issue.  Why am I having to go back and re-ask for things I
asked to be done months ago!

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From: "Joshua D. Drake" <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 6 Mar 2008 14:00:12 -0800

On Thu, 6 Mar 2008 16:55:01 -0500 (EST)

> asked to be done months ago!
Because the project refuses to use a tracker?

...

- -- 
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From: Bruce Momjian <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 6 Mar 2008 17:00:32 -0500 (EST)

Joshua D. Drake wrote:
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA1
> 

You mean we need a tracker for web requests?

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From: "Joshua D. Drake" <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 6 Mar 2008 14:06:57 -0800

On Thu, 6 Mar 2008 17:00:32 -0500 (EST)

> You mean we need a tracker for web requests?

Well I meant it as a joke :). So let's not start a whole thing. There
is actually a tracker for web requests, for things of a long term
nature that are getting done. It is over at pmt and is used for
sysadmins in general.

On a serious note the reason I would assume that it is not done is that
only one person knows how and it isn't myself, stefan, dave or magnus.

Joshua D. Drake 

- --

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From: Bruce Momjian <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 6 Mar 2008 17:08:06 -0500 (EST)

> only one person knows how and it isn't myself, stefan, dave or magnus.

Well, then I propose we give more people power to do such things.

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From: "Joshua D. Drake" <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 6 Mar 2008 14:10:55 -0800

On Thu, 6 Mar 2008 17:08:06 -0500 (EST)
Bruce Momjian <[email-masked]> wrote:

> > On a serious note the reason I would assume that it is not done is
> > that only one person knows how and it isn't myself, stefan, dave or
> > magnus.
> 

I don't think it is the power that is the problem. It is the utter
lack of documentation. I know that a couple in the IN list above have
the security clearance... but reverse engineering production systems
based on zero knowledge of operation is not a fun or safe thing to do.

Sincerely,

Joshua D. Drake 

- --

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From: Bruce Momjian <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 6 Mar 2008 17:12:35 -0500 (EST)

> based on zero knowledge of operation is not a fun or safe thing to do.

Well, what suggestion do you have?

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From: Alvaro Herrera <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 6 Mar 2008 19:17:47 -0300

> You mean we need a tracker for web requests?

He is pulling your leg.  The problem here is not the lack of tracker --
the problem is that Marc takes a long time to do stuff, and sometimes
forgets, and then he doesn't want to be part of the rest of the
administration team.  I have offered help on the things I can do, like
administering Majordomo.

Perhaps the problem _is_ the lack of a tracker, but since Marc is not
willing to answer to simple queries here, why would he feel more pressed
by a tracker?

-- 
Alvaro Herrera                                http://www.CommandPrompt.com/
PostgreSQL Replication, Consulting, Custom Development, 24x7 support

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From: Bruce Momjian <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 6 Mar 2008 18:38:22 -0500 (EST)

> administration team.  I have offered help on the things I can do, like

OK, I am thinking we need someone as foolish as me --- willing to jump
in and try things, ready to fail, but try again.  Our current system
isn't working so I support someone getting in there and giving it a try
--- over the long run the person will become capable and will document
what needs to be done.

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From: "Marc G. Fournier" <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 06 Mar 2008 19:49:50 -0400

> Would someone please fix this too.

Fixed

- ----
Marc G. Fournier           Hub.Org Networking Services (http://www.hub.org)
Email . [email-masked]                              MSN . [email-masked]
Yahoo . yscrappy               Skype: hub.org        ICQ . 7615664

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From: "Marc G. Fournier" <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 06 Mar 2008 19:50:14 -0400

> asked to be done months ago!

Because nobody saw it?

- ----

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From: "Marc G. Fournier" <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 06 Mar 2008 19:52:14 -0400

> only one person knows how and it isn't myself, stefan, dave or magnus.

Actually, it wasn't done because I don't htink anyone noticed the request .. as 
to stefan, dave or magnus, they have all root access to the VPS in question, 
and know how to use cron to find out what script gets called (hint: its called 
mk-snapshot) and could have very easily modified the script ...

- ----

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From: Alvaro Herrera <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 6 Mar 2008 21:16:01 -0300

> > asked to be done months ago!

How come you don't see things?  Please have a look at this email --
I CC'ed you.  Would you reply?  If you want me to help, I'm willing.

Thanks,

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From: Alvaro Herrera <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 6 Mar 2008 21:21:47 -0300

> I CC'ed you.  Would you reply?  If you want me to help, I'm willing.

Huh, for some reason I didn't paste the URL.  Sorry.  Here it is:

http://archives.postgresql.org/pgsql-www/2008-03/msg00022.php

-- 
Alvaro Herrera                                http://www.CommandPrompt.com/
The PostgreSQL Company - Command Prompt, Inc.

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From: "Marc G. Fournier" <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 06 Mar 2008 20:31:56 -0400

> I CC'ed you.  Would you reply?  If you want me to help, I'm willing.

Which one are you talkign about?  the one about settting categories that I just 
responded to?

- ----

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From: "Dave Page" <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 7 Mar 2008 08:55:14 +0000

> mk-snapshot) and could have very easily modified the script ...

Actually I think there are two problems at work here:

1) We're all pretty busy, and often ignore messages when we're
particularly busy on the assumption that someone else will pick them
up.

2) Some things like the snapshot builds have specific 'owners', so we
tend to ignore anything that is "someone else's territory"

We need to get better at not doing those things - one solution would
be to give Bruce access to PMT so he can log tickets that we can't
ignore or miss so easily.

-- 
Dave Page
EnterpriseDB UK Ltd: http://www.enterprisedb.com
PostgreSQL UK 2008 Conference: http://www.postgresql.org.uk

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From: Peter Eisentraut <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 7 Mar 2008 10:21:52 +0100

> tend to ignore anything that is "someone else's territory"

I was thinking it might be good if all people in the dev (or some other) group 
had sudo access to a common account, which might be pgsql, to run these cron 
jobs under.  As another example, I run the documentation build and some other 
things under my personal account.  I'd love give other people access to 
co-maintain these things, but I don't know a good permission structure to do 
that.  I have also had the desire to fix some things in the snapshot builds 
in the past, but it is a mess to coordinate that between the makefiles and 
Marc's personal scripts.

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From: "Dave Page" <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 7 Mar 2008 09:28:57 +0000

> in the past, but it is a mess to coordinate that between the makefiles and

We do tend to do that for all the stuff we deploy now. The main
exception to the rule is Marc's stuff that's been in place for many
years which is run from his own, largely undocumented scripts (hint
hint :-) ).

developer.postgresql.org in general is a bit of a mess though as it's
grown from being the one box that did everything, and is now shrinking
again as we migrate services off and onto their own VMs. I'd like to
get to the stage where we can remove it altogether.

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From: User Scrappy <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 7 Mar 2008 09:59:54 -0400 (AST)

> years which is run from his own, largely undocumented scripts (hint

Tell me what you want to see documented in ~pgsql/bin/mk-snapshot ... 
there isn't anything special in it ... its very self-explanatory (cvs 
export this, make that, move the result here) ... there is no voodoo 
involved here, or secret incantations ... and what runs, and paths to 
them, are plainly available in cron ...

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From: "Dave Page" <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 7 Mar 2008 14:06:57 +0000

> them, are plainly available in cron ...

I'm not specifically referring to that, but the various scripts that
evolved in the early days. A good example is the archives system which
hasn't really been worked on by anyone except you and very recently
Alvaro.

What we should have though is a brief description on PMT of each
service that exists, what scripts it involves, what user id it runs
under etc.

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From: Bruce Momjian <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 7 Mar 2008 09:19:38 -0500 (EST)

> service that exists, what scripts it involves, what user id it runs

Yea, that seems like it would be useful.