Date: Fri, 3 May 2013 09:23:45 -0400
From: Bruce Momjian <bruce@momjian.us>
To: Magnus Hagander <magnus@hagander.net>
Cc: "Joshua D. Drake" <jd@commandprompt.com>,
	Stefan Kaltenbrunner <stefan@kaltenbrunner.cc>, Paul Waring <paul@xk7.net>,
	PostgreSQL WWW <pgsql-www@postgresql.org>
Subject: Re: Can we change auto-logout timing on
 wiki.postgresql.org?
Message-ID: <20130503132345.GG3374@momjian.us>
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	<20130427140914.GA20361@momjian.us>
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On Fri, May  3, 2013 at 10:19:09AM +0200, Magnus Hagander wrote:
> >> >>well from a security perspective it is usually advisable to keep session
> >> >>lifetimes as short as possible, I agree that the current setup was way
> >> >>to aggressive, but 6h already results in a 6-15x increase of what we had
> >> >>before. We can always adjust upwards if we people are really working 6h+
> >> >>on an article but lets see first if this change really fixes the issue
> >> >>berkus complained about.
> >> >
> >> >This is a wiki, not a banking website.  We need to use security that is
> >> >appropriate for what we are guarding.  We could just prevent edits and
> >> >it would be even more secure.  ;-)
> >> >
> >> >I would like 7 days, myself.
> >> >
> >>
> >> Yep, I mean really, it is a wiki.
> >
> > OK, please make it 7 days.  I keep the wiki tab open on my browser and
> > having to log in every day is a pain.  Now, if you want me to stop using
> > the wiki, I am happy to do that.
> 
> Really, Bruce?

Yes, really.  I am not saying I will stop using the wiki, but it
certainly would be nice if I didn't have to use the wiki because others
used it more.  And the more cumbersome with wiki is to use, the more I
would like to avoid using it --- that's just natural.  I would think we
would have a setup to encourage people to use the wiki more by making it
easier to use.

I moved to the wiki so others could update the TODO list, but history
shows that I am still making the majority of the edits:

	https://wiki.postgresql.org/index.php?title=Todo&action=history

I do appreciate others making changes, but some of them are added
without discussion, so they need to be reviewed.  However, I don't
always get email when someone edits because of some logic that only
emails me the first time, unless I go to the site, though I have the
TODO list tab always open --- I never understood that.

There are other oddities, like many of the "Contents" links not working
(e.g. "Montoring"), and broken output when links contain '=', so I added
a cron job on my machine to check for them.

I asked about this timeout issue over a year ago, and was told no one
knew the cause.  Now that the cause was found, I am told that the
administrators want to set a timeout that is less than any other
non-commerce website I visit because of security.  To me that reflects a
distorted view of usability vs security, and all for a wiki site.

So if someone responsible wants to work on the TODO list, go ahead, it
is all there ready for you.  Odds are, I will never even see
notifications of your changes anyway.  :-(

Administrators say they increased the timeout 10x and need feedback if
it needs to be increased further?  Do you need me to notice that every
day I have to hit the 'edit' button, realize my session has timed out,
then hit the login button and try again.  It happened this morning ---
is that sufficient?  I have no idea.  Do these cookies control anything
but the wiki?  I assume not because 20 minutes was the MediaWiki default.

So, in summary, there are all these things on the wiki that don't work,
but I am having to fight to get something we can fix to a reasonable
default, and at a certain point, you just give up and find a way to do
it yourself, like maybe an auto-login javascript widget for the wiki.
(No, I have not written one, _yet_.  ;-) )

-- 
  Bruce Momjian  <bruce@momjian.us>        http://momjian.us
  EnterpriseDB                             http://enterprisedb.com

  + It's impossible for everything to be true. +


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