Subject: One line new items

From: "Joshua D. Drake" <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 17 May 2006 09:18:25 -0700

Hello,

May I suggest that if someone is going to run a press release on the 
PostgreSQL.Org website, that we require that the entire press release be 
present?

If it is just a link, we are driving readers from PostgreSQL which is 
not IMHO appropriate. It is also irritating as we are not a "link" site.

Joshua D. Drake
-- 

    === The PostgreSQL Company: Command Prompt, Inc. ===
Sales/Support: +1.503.667.4564 || 24x7/Emergency: +1.800.492.2240
    Providing the most comprehensive  PostgreSQL solutions since 1997
              http://www.commandprompt.com/

---

From: Martin Marques <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 17 May 2006 13:25:19 -0300

> not IMHO appropriate. It is also irritating as we are not a "link" site.

New links could be opened in a new window. Not very dificult to implement.

-- 
---------------------------------------------------------
Lic. Martín Marqués         |   SELECT 'mmarques' || 
Centro de Telemática        |       '@' || 'unl.edu.ar';
Universidad Nacional        |   DBA, Programador, 
    del Litoral             |   Administrador
---------------------------------------------------------

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From: Bruce Momjian <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 17 May 2006 12:49:46 -0400 (EDT)

> New links could be opened in a new window. Not very dificult to implement.

I prefer a one line description and a link.  I don't have any problem
with people leaving our site to see it.  We aren't selling anything.

-- 
  Bruce Momjian   http://candle.pha.pa.us
  EnterpriseDB    http://www.enterprisedb.com

  + If your life is a hard drive, Christ can be your backup. +

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From: "Joshua D. Drake" <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 17 May 2006 09:59:06 -0700

> with people leaving our site to see it.  We aren't selling anything.

We most certainly are selling something. PostgreSQL.

Joshua D. Drake

--

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From: Bruce Momjian <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 17 May 2006 13:00:58 -0400 (EDT)

> We most certainly are selling something. PostgreSQL.

Uh, I don't think so.  We are _offering_ it.

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From: "Joshua D. Drake" <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 17 May 2006 10:03:26 -0700

> Uh, I don't think so.  We are _offering_ it.

Oh good lord, lets get into a terminology argument shall we.

The point, is that we are trying to insure that PostgreSQL is the 
prominent OSS database. Yes? If so....

Selling/Offering/Giving/Proliferating

Pick your word I really don't care.

It is obnoxious to have PR trolls offer only a one liner with a link to 
another website without any context to the content beyond the title.

Joshua D. Drake

--

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From: Martin Marques <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 17 May 2006 14:08:14 -0300

> another website without any context to the content beyond the title.

Bruce said he was in favor of a one line description, so I guess you two think the same about this. :-D

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From: Josh Berkus <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 17 May 2006 10:12:10 -0700

Josh,

> another website without any context to the content beyond the title.

Well, that's really up to the WWW approval group, isn't it?  They have the 
ability to edit news items, or to reject them.  Given the amount of spam 
they have to filter, I'm sure they'd be happy to have another volunteer.

Personally, I think that Martin was on the mark; we just need to transform 
links so that they open in a new window ... which is probably what our 
users want anyway.  But let's NOT make this a political issue, it's too 
trivial.

-- 
--Josh

Josh Berkus
PostgreSQL @ Sun
San Francisco

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From: Bruce Momjian <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 17 May 2006 13:12:55 -0400 (EDT)

> Bruce said he was in favor of a one line description, so I guess you two think the same about this. :-D

I was assuming the one-liner was actually a summary.  If this is the
item Joshua saw, he is right, it isn't a summary:

	http://www.postgresql.org/about/news.554

I do prefer one-line summaries of press releases because the press
release usually has the interesting information so buried in the text.

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From: "Joshua D. Drake" <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 17 May 2006 10:32:50 -0700

> release usually has the interesting information so buried in the text.

Yes that is the one I saw. To me it should be there. If it said:

EnterpriseDB Boosts Partner Program Roster

EnterpriseDB increases partner by 7 new development, sales, (whatever) 
partners, they are ...

For more information on EnterpriseDBs partner program click here.

For the full release click here..

I would be o.k. with it, because it offers actual context and some content.

Sincerely,

Joshua D. Drake

--

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From: David Fetter <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 17 May 2006 10:34:34 -0700

On Wed, May 17, 2006 at 10:03:26AM -0700, Joshua D. Drake wrote:
> Bruce Momjian wrote:
> >Joshua D. Drake wrote:
> >>>I prefer a one line description and a link.  I don't have any
> >>>problem with people leaving our site to see it.  We aren't
> >>>selling anything.

Let's not :)

> It is obnoxious to have PR trolls offer only a one liner with a link
> to another website without any context to the content beyond the
> title.

In the PostgreSQL Weekly News, I put one line of description--often
not even 70 characters--and a link, but I make sure it's really
PostgreSQL content.  It's meant to take you to another site, and it's
part of why people send me things in advance for it.

But that's for PWN, which is designed to be a quick, readable summary.
What is the purpose of those news bits?  If it's to keep people on the
site, then Josh Drake's point is 100% on.

Cheers,
D
-- 
David Fetter <[email-masked]> http://fetter.org/
phone: +1 415 235 3778        AIM: dfetter666
                              Skype: davidfetter

Remember to vote!

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From: Peter Eisentraut <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 17 May 2006 19:43:29 +0200

Josh Berkus wrote:
> Personally, I think that Martin was on the mark; we just need to
> transform links so that they open in a new window ... which is
> probably what our users want anyway.

No, that is completely evil.

-- 
Peter Eisentraut
http://developer.postgresql.org/~petere/

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From: "Marc G. Fournier" <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 17 May 2006 15:12:06 -0300 (ADT)

> Uh, I don't think so.  We are _offering_ it.

Agreed ... if we are going to force ppl to stay on our site, then we 
should just drop posting news annoucenemnts for other ppls products, which 
I don't think is right ... we should be *promoting* others that use 
PostgreSQL as a backend ...

----
Marc G. Fournier           Hub.Org Networking Services (http://www.hub.org)
Email: [email-masked]           Yahoo!: yscrappy              ICQ: 7615664

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From: Tom Lane <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 17 May 2006 14:32:20 -0400

> No, that is completely evil.

I agree with Peter.  I find sites that think they know better than I do
whether to open something in a new window truly annoying.  Not quite as
bad as popup/popunder ads, but pretty bad.

			regards, tom lane

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From: "Joshua D. Drake" <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 17 May 2006 11:34:26 -0700

> should just drop posting news annoucenemnts for other ppls products, 
> which I don't think is right ... we should be *promoting* others that 
> use PostgreSQL as a backend ...

Of course we should but that isn't what that particular press release 
does. See my other posts. I am not arguing about having press releases 
or promoting other products that use our product.

I am arguing that more needs to be in the press release for us to accept it.

SIncerely,

Joshua D. Drake

--

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From: "Joshua D. Drake" <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 17 May 2006 11:35:34 -0700

> No, that is completely evil.

Not really, it is pretty common to open a new window "if" the link takes 
you from the original site you were viewing.

Although I don't think the step is required, I think we just need to 
make sure people are offering something beyond a link if we are going to 
post their item.

Joshua D. Drake

--

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From: Bruce Momjian <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 17 May 2006 14:37:29 -0400 (EDT)

> I am arguing that more needs to be in the press release for us to accept it.

Agreed.

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From: Bruce Momjian <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 17 May 2006 14:38:00 -0400 (EDT)

> you from the original site you were viewing.

Commonly annoying it seems. ;-)

> make sure people are offering something beyond a link if we are going to 

Yep.

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From: Tino Wildenhain <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 17 May 2006 20:39:51 +0200

> No, that is completely evil.
I'm all applouding. Please dont do that, that is truely annoying.

Regards
Tino

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From: "Jonah H. Harris" <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 17 May 2006 14:44:47 -0400

> item Joshua saw, he is right, it isn't a summary:

While it's up to the web guys, I agree with Josh et al.  I think a
minimal summary (1-2 lines) should be required for any news posting to
be accepted.

-- 
Jonah H. Harris, Software Architect | phone: 732.331.1300
EnterpriseDB Corporation            | fax: 732.331.1301
33 Wood Ave S, 2nd Floor            | [email-masked]
Iselin, New Jersey 08830            | http://www.enterprisedb.com/

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From: "Jonah H. Harris" <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 17 May 2006 14:51:17 -0400

> > I am arguing that more needs to be in the press release

I agree as well.  The nice thing about the news items is that they're
generally a condensed version of the news item.  Based on the summary,
I decide whether I want to go read the full text.

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From: Bruce Momjian <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 17 May 2006 15:03:25 -0400 (EDT)

> I decide whether I want to go read the full text.

I have contacted the original press release poster and EnterpriseDB
marketing, letting them know that a summary should be supplied before
the URL.

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From: Martin Marques <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 17 May 2006 16:04:41 -0300

> I would be o.k. with it, because it offers actual context and some

Something doen's look right. In the news archive[1], there is a rescription, but when entering the link with the actual news[2], you get the extremly short news with the link.

It's like "more" is really "less". :-)

[1]: http://www.postgresql.org/about/newsarchive
[2]: http://www.postgresql.org/about/news.554

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From: Dave Page <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 17 May 2006 20:09:49 +0100

On 17/5/06 19:37, "Bruce Momjian" <[email-masked]> wrote:

> Joshua D. Drake wrote:
>> >
>> > I am arguing that more needs to be in the press release for us to accept >>
it.
> Agreed.
I don¹t disagree, however at the moment we don¹t have any actual policy on
what we should and shouldn¹t approve. The only Œrule¹ that tends to get
actively enforced (other than rejecting irrelevant stuff) is that we only
have one product release news item per company every 6 weeks on average.

It will be on the web team meeting agenda at the conference to discuss a
more formal policy to be published on the website. Comments and ideas would
be welcome of course.

Regards, Dave.

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From: "Jonah H. Harris" <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 17 May 2006 15:10:53 -0400

> It's like "more" is really "less". :-)

I always thought less(1) was more than more(1) :)

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From: Chris Browne <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 17 May 2006 20:57:35 +0000

> I always thought less(1) was more than more(1) :)

But what do you like most(1)?
-- 
"cbbrowne","@","acm.org"
http://cbbrowne.com/info/rdbms.html
Rules of the  Evil Overlord #46. "If an advisor says  to me "My liege,
he  is but  one man.  What can  one man  possibly do?",  I  will reply
"This." and kill the advisor." <http://www.eviloverlord.com/>

---

From: Chris Browne <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 17 May 2006 21:00:57 +0000

[email-masked] ("Jonah H. Harris") writes:
> minimal summary (1-2 lines) should be required for any news posting
> to be accepted.

I am inclined to agree.

I get irritated no end when I see announcements for updates to pieces
of software where it takes research to even figure out what the
software is and why I should care.

Having a one line explanation is eminently appropriate.
-- 
select 'cbbrowne' || '@' || 'acm.org';
http://www.ntlug.org/~cbbrowne/nonrdbms.html
"I don't  know what OS  we will  be running in  40 years, but  it will
probably be called Unix...."
-- Chris Mikkelson <[email-masked]>

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From: "Marc G. Fournier" <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 17 May 2006 18:33:49 -0300 (ADT)

> Commonly annoying it seems. ;-)

Agree there ...

>> make sure people are offering something beyond a link if we are going to

Don't disagree here ... but, its not that wide an area on the site, are 
things going to look 'bunched up' if we add a 'line of text'?  Do we need 
to somehow re-org the News/Events section on the site to accommodate the 
extra text?

----

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From: "Joshua D. Drake" <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 17 May 2006 14:36:56 -0700

> things going to look 'bunched up' if we add a 'line of text'?  Do we 
> need to somehow re-org the News/Events section on the site to 
> accommodate the extra text?

I am not talking about the main link off www.postgresql.org, I am 
talking about the page that link brings up... look at:

Joshua D. Drake

--

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From: "Jim C. Nasby" <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 17 May 2006 16:42:54 -0500

> New links could be opened in a new window. Not very dificult to implement.

Please no. I *really* hate sites that screw with my browser like that.
-- 
Jim C. Nasby, Sr. Engineering Consultant      [email-masked]
Pervasive Software      http://pervasive.com    work: 512-231-6117
vcard: http://jim.nasby.net/pervasive.vcf       cell: 512-569-9461

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From: "Jonah H. Harris" <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 17 May 2006 17:43:25 -0400

> But what do you like most(1)?

Ahh, yes.  less is more, but more more than more is, so more is less
less, so use more less if you want less more.  If you need more than
more or less, use most.

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From: "Marc G. Fournier" <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 18 May 2006 01:18:38 -0300 (ADT)

On Wed, 17 May 2006, Joshua D. Drake wrote:

> I am not talking about the main link off www.postgresql.org, I am talking 
> about the page that link brings up... look at:
>

D'oh, I'm sorry ... was literally on the wrong page here ... yes, 
defintely, wholeheartedly agree ... there should be an actual press 
release in there, IMHO ... not even just 'add a line' ... in fact, all 
things considered, that is one helluva waste of a page (and a click) ...

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