X-Original-To: pgsql-advocacy-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org Received: from localhost (unknown [200.46.204.2]) by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9B8F9D1D25B for ; Sat, 24 Apr 2004 09:09:55 -0300 (ADT) Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([200.46.204.71]) by localhost (neptune.hub.org [200.46.204.2]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 20600-08 for ; Sat, 24 Apr 2004 09:09:57 -0300 (ADT) Received: from latenight.fiasco.org.il (latenight.fiasco.org.il [192.117.122.39]) by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with SMTP id DC876D1D1D5 for ; Sat, 24 Apr 2004 09:09:52 -0300 (ADT) Received: (qmail 7425 invoked from network); 24 Apr 2004 12:09:54 -0000 X-Scanned-By: AMaViS-ng at latenight.fiasco.org.il Received: from unknown (HELO shemesh.biz) (192.117.102.130) by latenight.fiasco.org.il with SMTP; 24 Apr 2004 12:09:52 -0000 Message-ID: <408A590F.7070900@shemesh.biz> Date: Sat, 24 Apr 2004 15:09:51 +0300 From: Shachar Shemesh Organization: Lingnu Open Source Consulting User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.6) Gecko/20040413 Debian/1.6-5 X-Accept-Language: en, he MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Robert Treat Cc: PostgreSQL-development , PostgreSQL advocacy Subject: Re: Do we prefer software that works or software that looks good? References: <7305.1082779876@sss.pgh.pa.us> <4089F9ED.6000108@shemesh.biz> <200404240748.18313.xzilla@users.sourceforge.net> In-Reply-To: <200404240748.18313.xzilla@users.sourceforge.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 tagged_above=0.0 required=5.0 tests= X-Spam-Level: X-Archive-Number: 200404/234 X-Sequence-Number: 4206 Robert Treat wrote: >On Saturday 24 April 2004 01:23, Shachar Shemesh wrote: > > >>Tom Lane wrote: >> >> >>>PS: I resisted the temptation to SET THIS MESSAGE IN ALL UPPER CASE >>>to make the point about readability. But if you want to argue the >>>point with me, I'll be happy to do that for the rest of the thread. >>> >>> >>Yes, it's a well known rhetoric technique. Take whatever argument your >>opponent say, and exagerate it to an absurd. >> >> >> > >Kind of like changing the subject line of a thread to imply your side of the >argument is the one that has technical merit and the other side is being >petty and/or frivolous? > It is my understanding that the discussion with Tom was 100% about the question in the subject line. There is no question that the SQL standard dictates that unquoted identifiers should be folded to uppercase. There is no question (not from me) that upper case is ugly. The only question is whether we should prefer standard to asthetic. > Anyone who has studied software useability will >know that uppercase should, in general, be avoided as it hurts readability. > > You convinced me! let's change the SQL standard. >It isn't about "looking pretty", it's about being more usable. > >Robert Treat > > Ok. I'm willing to change the subject to "are hurting eyes due to uppercase preferable to changing lots of code when migrating to PG from other database due to standard incomplience", if it would make you feel better. The point is that I am not against lower case, or pro uppercase. I HATE uppercase. I do think, however, that standards should be followed. The question is, when all is said and done, which is more useable. A DB that presents unquoted identifiers as uppercase, or one that allows easier migration of client apps from other DBs. I'll also mention that if asthetic/readability is all that bothers you, we can add a flag to psql that displays all caps as lowercase. Shachar -- Shachar Shemesh Lingnu Open Source Consulting http://www.lingnu.com/