Message-ID: <419E53C3.4030208@cs.msu.su>
Date: Fri, 19 Nov 2004 23:12:51 +0300
From: Alexey Borzov <borz_off@cs.msu.su>
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To: josh@agliodbs.com
Cc: pgsql-www@postgresql.org
Subject: Re: Vote on Omar Design
References: <200411181953.10646.josh@agliodbs.com>
 <419DB399.2010008@cs.msu.su>
	<200411191107.44086.josh@agliodbs.com>
In-Reply-To: <200411191107.44086.josh@agliodbs.com>
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Hi,

Josh Berkus wrote:
>>Therefore, I'm willing to support Omar's design, but *after* the content
>>fixing and porting work is finished. This work may continue even in the
>>current design.
> 
> I was under the impression that porting the content to Lucasz' design, putting 
> it up, applying Omar's design, and then re-arranging the content to fit 
> Omar's design, was much more work than just doing Omar's design.   Was I 
> mistaken?

These tasks are orthogonal. Most of the pages would fit in any design and I 
doubt Omar did any changes to them at all when "porting".

> And Omar has already ported part of the content to his design as an example, 
> and is willing to do more.    It would be one thing if you'd said that 
> Lucasz' design was the only way we'd get a new site up by 8.0, but you've not 
> said that ... so both options seem to be equivalent, and Omar's is the better 
> looking design, at least I've not seen anyone say otherwise.

I took a look at http://postgresql.tinysofa.com and it looks like the site has 
all the current content ported to the new[er] design, including advocacy stuff.

Thus +1 for Omar's design.

My main point was that we need content authors and editors now, not programmers 
/ designers. I have some doubts that Omar is a native English speaker and will 
be able to write content.

>>Omar has 
>>been submitting patches which are being reviewed and getting committed
>>so things seem ok there.
> 
> Yes, but Omar splitting his time between his design and Lucasz's is far less 
> effective than Omar working full time on his design.

The patches he sent are orthogonal to the design, ask him if you don't believe me.

> Who's "we"?   I don't recall a spec document anywhere that says that the 
> design has to be "stretchy", nor do I recall any discussion on this list to 
> that effect.   Maybe my memory is faulty, give me a link.

There *of course* wasn't any spec document (who do you think we are?) but there 
were discussions on that particular issue, back in spring I think.

Thus I'd very much like to see a variable-width version of Omar's design, I 
doubt there will be any serious problems to change it.

>>From my perspective:
> 1) Omar's design is undeniably better-looking and easier to navigate than 
> Lucasz's;

Agreed, with the exception of fixed-width issue.

> 2) Porting to Omar's design rather than Lucasz's will make no difference in 
> the go-live time of the web site;

Agreed.

> 3) Omar has demonstrated that he will be around to help with the port, which I 
> don't think Lucasz is (since www-committers has no public archive, I can't 
> tell if Lucasz has been helping quietly in the background).

There *is* a public archive: http://gborg.postgresql.org/pipermail/pgweb-commits
You are right: Lukasz only did the design.

Speaking of which, if Omar wants to "be around", he should register a gborg 
account and convince Dave to add him as a pgweb project developer.