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help / color / mirror / Atom feedFrom: Joshua D. Drake <[email protected]>
To: Tom Lane <[email protected]>
Cc: [email protected]
Subject: Re: Getting a move on for 8.2 beta
Date: Fri, 01 Sep 2006 13:33:46 -0700
Message-ID: <[email protected]> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
<[email protected]>
<[email protected]>
>
> Josh said nearly the same in core's discussion, but come now. The
> updateable-view patch (in its current form) does not offer *one single
> thing* you can't do today, indeed for many PG releases past; it just
> saves writing out some tedious rules.
Sure, I can write the rules, you can write the rules but we can do
rollup queries using unions too, but we still don't have rollup :)
Perception is everything and we don't have Updateable views until we
don't have to write those rules (yes, its stupid)...
> If that's the most marketable
> feature in 8.2 we're already in trouble. I don't think it is anyway.
> Looking at the CVS logs I see
>
> INSERT/UPDATE/DELETE RETURNING
> VALUES lists
> CREATE INDEX CONCURRENTLY
> constraint exclusion works on UPDATE/DELETE queries
> multiple-argument aggregate functions
> SQL2003-standard statistical aggregates
> COPY (SELECT ...) TO ...
> pg_dump selectivity options
> customizable timezone names
> GIN indexes
> FILLFACTOR for indexes and tables
Let's take multiple-argument aggregate functions for example... The
marketable portion of that is limited. 85% of the people we are
marketing too don't even know what that means. Heck, I haven't even run
into the pervious limitation :)
Versus SQL2003-standard statistical aggregates. That wins hands down
just because of the SQL2003-standard part of the string :)
COPY (SELECT...) TO, is only marketable to current PostgreSQL users.
Those who are not users don't know the limitation and it is likely not
something they would look for when evaluating PostgreSQL.
For my current customers the things that are the most marketable (note
current customers) is probably:
* CREATE INDEX CONCURRENTLY (this is a huge in production boon)
* GIN indexes (after explanation)
* constraint exclusion works on UPDATE/DELETE queries (We are using
alot of tp now, so this is great)
* Bitmap Indexes
It does not mean all those features are useful, they definitely are. I
am just trying to look at it from at:
WHIZ* BANG* POW* perspective.
What makes the analyst (and I know this isn't the communities problem)
say, "Holy crap batman, we need to be talking to more people about this
database". I think those would be Updateable views, Bitmap Indexes and
the SQL2003-standard statistical aggregates.
Sincerely,
Joshua D. Drake
>
> and that's just back to the beginning of July, so it probably represents
> about a quarter of the work that's gone into 8.2, but I got tired of
> reading the logs at that point.
>
> We have this discussion every single release cycle: "hey, if we wait X
> amount more time then we can have cool features Y and Z". But there's
> always another X, Y, and Z. More importantly, this view ignores the
> very real disadvantages of not getting already-finished cool features
> A through W out to our users sooner.
>
> regards, tom lane
>
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