Subject: New Lists?

From: David Fetter <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 29 May 2007 21:55:32 -0700

Folks,

The kind people of the Tehran PUG would like to start an official
list.  How is this done, and should we have a procedure on the web for
getting this started?

Cheers,
D
-- 
David Fetter <[email-masked]> http://fetter.org/
phone: +1 415 235 3778        AIM: dfetter666
                              Skype: davidfetter

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From: Devrim GÜNDÜZ <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 30 May 2007 11:27:42 +0300

Hello,

On Tue, 2007-05-29 at 21:55 -0700, David Fetter wrote:

> list.  How is this done.

We need a "list administrator's" e-mail first, after someone asks for
the list. Then, if noone objects, Marc creates the list in the form
"pgsql-"COUNTRY_CODE_ISO-3166-STANDARD"-"The local word for 'General'"

For example: pgsql-tr-genel, etc.

But, *in my opinion*, the list administrator must either be a well-known
person in the community or must be endorsed by a well-known person in
the community. We must be sure that (s)he is among the PostgreSQL
leaders in that country.

> and should we have a procedure on the web for getting this started? 

Yes, we should add the procedure to our web page, agreed.

Regards,
-- 
Devrim GÜNDÜZ
PostgreSQL Replication, Consulting, Custom Development, 24x7 support
Managed Services, Shared and Dedicated Hosting
Co-Authors: plPHP, ODBCng - http://www.commandprompt.com/

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From: David Fetter <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 30 May 2007 11:02:07 -0700

On Wed, May 30, 2007 at 11:27:42AM +0300, Devrim G?ND?Z wrote:
> We need a "list administrator's" e-mail first, after someone asks
> for the list. Then, if noone objects, Marc creates the list in the
> form "pgsql-"COUNTRY_CODE_ISO-3166-STANDARD"-"The local word for
> 'General'"
> 
> But, *in my opinion*, the list administrator must either be a
> well-known person in the community or must be endorsed by a
> well-known person in the community. We must be sure that (s)he is
> among the PostgreSQL leaders in that country.

I like this idea, but I have questions about how we assess this.  We
have a sample of size comfortably less than 10 from all of the
People's Republic of China, and fewer still from Iran.  How do we know
whom we're talking to?

One way to define leadership is "those who step up and do the work."
It's always possible to revisit :)

> Yes, we should add the procedure to our web page, agreed.

:)

Cheers,
D

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From: "Marc G. Fournier" <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 30 May 2007 15:59:36 -0300

> It's always possible to revisit :)

As rare as D and I agree ... I agree ... its not like its hard to change the 
owner of a list if we need to ...

- ----
Marc G. Fournier           Hub.Org Networking Services (http://www.hub.org)
Email . [email-masked]                              MSN . [email-masked]
Yahoo . yscrappy               Skype: hub.org        ICQ . 7615664

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From: Josh Berkus <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 30 May 2007 12:45:15 -0700

David,

Just so you and others are aware: there can't be any interaction between the 
Tehran PUG and SPI.  Stupid US embargo laws.

-- 
Josh Berkus
PostgreSQL @ Sun
San Francisco

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From: David Fetter <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 30 May 2007 12:49:19 -0700

On Wed, May 30, 2007 at 12:45:15PM -0700, Josh Berkus wrote:
> David,
> 
> Just so you and others are aware: there can't be any interaction
> between the Tehran PUG and SPI.  Stupid US embargo laws.

I'm aware :P

Cheers,
D

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From: Josh Berkus <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 30 May 2007 13:07:37 -0700

Marc,

> Just so you and others are aware: there can't be any interaction between
> the Tehran PUG and SPI.  Stupid US embargo laws.

Oh, related to this ... are the pugs mailing lists and the pugs.postgresql.org 
VM located on a machine outside the US?

-- 
Josh Berkus
PostgreSQL @ Sun
San Francisco

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From: Dave Page <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 30 May 2007 21:08:11 +0100

> Tehran PUG and SPI.  Stupid US embargo laws.

Would we have a problem if any of the servers carrying list archives, or
linking to the lists were partially or fully funded by SPI or another US
based company?

/D

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From: David Fetter <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 30 May 2007 13:11:42 -0700

On Wed, May 30, 2007 at 01:07:37PM -0700, Josh Berkus wrote:
> Oh, related to this ... are the pugs mailing lists and the
> pugs.postgresql.org VM located on a machine outside the US?

As far as I know, they're still on redhotpenguin servers, which are
here in the SF Bay Area.

Cheers,
D

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From: Selena Deckelmann <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 30 May 2007 14:14:33 -0700

> Yes, we should add the procedure to our web page, agreed.

And, if you're creating the Tehran archives.postgresql.org page,  
could you please update the pdxpug page (http:// 
archives.postgresql.org/pdxpug/) to look more like http:// 
archives.postgresql.org/sfpug/ at the same time?

I volunteer to do this if someone gives me access, although I'm not  
sure I meet the criteria Devrim laid out. 8-)

Thanks,
-selena

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From: Devrim GÜNDÜZ <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 31 May 2007 00:26:00 +0300

Hi,

> People's Republic of China, and fewer still from Iran.  How do we know

How do you know that the people who ask you a list is really a
PostgreSQL guy? When I asked for a list for -tr (which is the first
country-specific list...) noone objected since people knew me. 

"Endorsing by a known community member" is a good option, when there are
few people in that specific country. 

... BTW, "leadership" does not meet the meaning that I wanted to say.
Ignore that part, please.

> It's always possible to revisit :)

Once we create the list, people from local community will ask for
updates whenever the list administrator cannot administrate the list any
longer.

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From: Josh Berkus <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 30 May 2007 14:27:54 -0700

All,

> linking to the lists were partially or fully funded by SPI or another US

Yes, potentially.  It's enough that we'd have to talk to an attorney.

> As far as I know, they're still on redhotpenguin servers, which are

Oh.  That could be a problem.

-- 
--Josh

Josh Berkus
PostgreSQL @ Sun
San Francisco

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From: David Fetter <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 30 May 2007 14:56:48 -0700

> Oh.  That could be a problem.

We've already got Tunisia and United Arab Emirates lists on there.
I'm not sure whether either of those countries is subject to export
controls :P

Cheers,
D

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From: Josh Berkus <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 30 May 2007 15:07:32 -0700

David,

> I'm not sure whether either of those countries is subject to export

No.  I've been checking.

-- 
--Josh

Josh Berkus
PostgreSQL @ Sun
San Francisco

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From: David Fetter <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 30 May 2007 15:17:48 -0700

On Thu, May 31, 2007 at 12:26:00AM +0300, Devrim G?ND?Z wrote:
> > I like this idea, but I have questions about how we assess this.
> > We have a sample of size comfortably less than 10 from all of the
> > People's Republic of China, and fewer still from Iran.  How do we
> > know whom we're talking to?
> 

That is the problem.  Not every country has a known representative,
nor, I think, should we demand that that they do in order to get
started.

> "Endorsing by a known community member" is a good option, when there
> are few people in that specific country. 

In China, we have approximately zero.  Similar with Iran.

> ... BTW, "leadership" does not meet the meaning that I wanted to
> say.  Ignore that part, please.
> 
> > One way to define leadership is "those who step up and do the
> > work." It's always possible to revisit :)
> 
> updates whenever the list administrator cannot administrate the list
> any longer.

OK :)

Cheers,
D

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From: "Marc G. Fournier" <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 30 May 2007 20:27:27 -0300

> pugs.postgresql.org  VM located on a machine outside the US?

Most definitely ... the only thing that is 'in the US' that I'm aware of is 
archives.postgresql.org, and that's just a copy / mirror ...

- ----

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From: "Marc G. Fournier" <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 30 May 2007 20:28:26 -0300

> As far as I know, they're still on redhotpenguin servers, which are

They never have been:

Name:   pugs.postgresql.org
Address: 200.46.204.175

- ----

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From: David Fetter <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 30 May 2007 16:31:46 -0700

On Wed, May 30, 2007 at 08:28:26PM -0300, Marc G. Fournier wrote:
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA1
> 
> 
> 

Great :)

Cheers,
D

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From: Robert Treat <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 30 May 2007 20:50:17 -0400

> In China, we have approximately zero.  Similar with Iran.

Eh... I've spoken with a few chinese members on related topics... and have at 
least one I'd endorse if I had to. 

> > updates whenever the list administrator cannot administrate the list

yeah, I don't see too much concern from that side. 

-- 
Robert Treat
Build A Brighter LAMP :: Linux Apache {middleware} PostgreSQL