Subject: Ongoing issues with the downloads page

From: Josh Berkus <[email-masked]>
Date: Sat, 29 Sep 2007 13:53:04 +0200

Magnus, all:

1) Sun still does not appear in the list of commercial sources for 
PostgreSQL.   Why did this not get committed?

2) Someone added "TrafficReports" under a new category "Reporting". 
This is unreasonable favoritism towards a single reporting project. 
Either we need to list at least 6 of the OSS & commercial reporting 
tools which support PostgreSQL, or delete the category alltogther (I 
support the latter).

--Josh Berkus

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From: Stefan Kaltenbrunner <[email-masked]>
Date: Sat, 29 Sep 2007 15:06:59 +0200

> PostgreSQL.   Why did this not get committed?

this looks more like missunderstanding than anything else ...
iirc after the last discussion about that topic correctly devrim quickly
added solaris/opensolaris here :

http://gborg.postgresql.org/pipermail/pgweb-commits/2007-August/001734.html

under "commercial software"(ie.:
http://www.postgresql.org/download/commercial) but I guess you were
actually taking about the small listing on the very end of the
"Downloads" main page (http://www.postgresql.org/download/) - right ?

> 
> 2) Someone added "TrafficReports" under a new category "Reporting". This
> is unreasonable favoritism towards a single reporting project. Either we
> need to list at least 6 of the OSS & commercial reporting tools which
> support PostgreSQL, or delete the category alltogther (I support the
> latter).

not so sure about that category either but are there more reporting
tools out there that are worth mentioning ?

Stefan

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From: Josh Berkus <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 01 Oct 2007 11:35:00 -0700

Stefan,

> "Downloads" main page (http://www.postgresql.org/download/) - right ?

Correct, since that's where other OS platforms are listed.  If RH & EDB 
are there, Solaris ought to be there.

> tools out there that are worth mentioning ?

Only a few dozen.  JasperReports, OpenRPT, Pentaho, BusinessObjects, 
Microstrategy, BIRT, etc, etc.

Overall, I think adding stuff to this page (and frankly, elsewhere on 
the web site) needs to be discussed on list (or at least announced) and 
not just arbitrarily added.  When we put one product in a category on 
the page and not others it gives the appearance of favoritism.  Also, by 
adding something like a reporting category with only one entry in it, we 
give the impression that it's the *only* reporting tool which works with 
PostgreSQL.

For reporting tools specifically, it should be removed from the 
downloads page and added to the Tools page, or get its own Reporting 
page.  There are too many reporting tools which work with PostgreSQL to 
have it on the main downloads page.

I also question moving the /commercial stuff to a permanent page rather 
than techdocs.  This list of compatible tools is *far* to volatile to 
depend on CVS access to update it.  Please move it back to Techdocs.

--Josh

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From: Dave Page <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 01 Oct 2007 19:57:59 +0100

> depend on CVS access to update it.  Please move it back to Techdocs.

Are you talking about the same website as the rest of us Josh? There is
no 'Tools' download page, nor has there ever been as far as I'm aware,
and the Commercial stuff hasn't been moved from Techdocs at all - it's
been there for nearly 3 years as a page in it's own right, started form
scratch.

If we do anything with those pages it will be to remove the general FOSS
stuff from the downloads page and include it, and all the commercial
stuff in a database backed application directory.

/D

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From: Josh Berkus <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 1 Oct 2007 12:25:57 -0700

Dave,

> no 'Tools' download page, nor has there ever been as far as I'm aware,

The Commercial page is a page of tools, by content.

> been there for nearly 3 years as a page in it's own right, started form

Parts of it, at least, were copied from the old techdocs.  I know because I 
wrote some of the text, and recognize my own writing.  

My point with this page is that many parts of it are out of date, and the 
subject matter is diverse enough that it needs to be in a part of our site 
which is under a CMS rather than WWW-rights and CVS-based so that more of 
the community can keep it up to date.

> stuff in a database backed application directory.

Sounds good to me.  We still need to make it obvious from the downloads 
page, though, to cut down on the "where is the C++ driver" type questions.  
But we could do that by topic rather than individually, e.g. "A list of 
Drivers is <link>here</link>" 

-- 
--Josh

Josh Berkus
PostgreSQL @ Sun
San Francisco

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From: Robert Treat <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 01 Oct 2007 15:53:51 -0400

> are there, Solaris ought to be there.

We're not trying to list every OS that can run postgres in this section, we're 
trying to provide pointers for end users to standardized package systems they 
may want to use to manage installation.  As I stated previously[1], if you 
can provide a pointer to a package management system for Sun, we can 
certainly add it here.

[1] http://archives.postgresql.org/pgsql-www/2007-09/msg00000.php

-- 
Robert Treat
Build A Brighter LAMP :: Linux Apache {middleware} PostgreSQL

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From: Josh Berkus <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 1 Oct 2007 14:06:14 -0700

Robert,

> We're not trying to list every OS that can run postgres in this section,
> we're trying to provide pointers for end users to standardized package
> systems they may want to use to manage installation.  As I stated
> previously[1], if you can provide a pointer to a package management
> system for Sun, we can certainly add it here.

Thing is, if you install OpenSolaris or Solaris 10 PostgreSQL is simply 
there.  There's no additional packages required.  I also think there are 
enough sources that some of this should be organized by OS.  So:

Solaris users can get PostgreSQL from <a 
href="http://www.blastwave.org/packages.php/postgresql">Blastwave</a>.  
For users of Solaris 10 update 2 or later, PostgreSQL is simply included.

The OSX references should be reorganized to:

Mac OSX users can get PostgreSQL packages from <a 
href="http://pdb.finkproject.org/pdb/package.php/postgresql">Fink</a>, <a 
href="http://www.macports.org/">MacPorts</a>, or 
<http://www.entropy.ch/software/macosx/postgresql/>Entropy.ch</a>.

-- 
--Josh

Josh Berkus
PostgreSQL @ Sun
San Francisco

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From: Josh Berkus <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 1 Oct 2007 14:09:39 -0700

All,

> href="http://pdb.finkproject.org/pdb/package.php/postgresql">Fink</a>,
> <a href="http://www.macports.org/">MacPorts</a>, or

Actually:

Mac OSX users can get PostgreSQL packages from <a 
href="http://pdb.finkproject.org/pdb/package.php/postgresql">Fink</a>, <a 
href="http://www.macports.org/">MacPorts</a>, <a 
href="http://www.postgresqlformac.com/">PostgreSQL for Mac</a>, or 
<http://www.entropy.ch/software/macosx/postgresql/>Entropy.ch</a>.

-- 
--Josh

Josh Berkus
PostgreSQL @ Sun
San Francisco