Received: from malur.postgresql.org ([217.196.149.56]) by arkaria.postgresql.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:256) (Exim 4.89) (envelope-from ) id 1gtzoQ-0005w7-6F for pgsql-www@arkaria.postgresql.org; Wed, 13 Feb 2019 19:03:14 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=malur.postgresql.org) by malur.postgresql.org with esmtp (Exim 4.89) (envelope-from ) id 1gtzoN-0001yt-T1 for pgsql-www@arkaria.postgresql.org; Wed, 13 Feb 2019 19:03:11 +0000 Received: from magus.postgresql.org ([2a02:c0:301:0:ffff::29]) by malur.postgresql.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:256) (Exim 4.89) (envelope-from ) id 1gtzoN-0001ym-Nh for pgsql-www@lists.postgresql.org; Wed, 13 Feb 2019 19:03:11 +0000 Received: from meldrar.postgresql.org ([2a02:c0:301:0:ffff::31]) by magus.postgresql.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:256) (Exim 4.89) (envelope-from ) id 1gtzoL-0002AQ-Ni for pgsql-www@lists.postgresql.org; Wed, 13 Feb 2019 19:03:11 +0000 Received: from [63.118.15.50] (helo=Ph33r-Retina.local) by meldrar.postgresql.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:256) (Exim 4.89) (envelope-from ) id 1gtzoJ-0002zM-DY; Wed, 13 Feb 2019 19:03:09 +0000 Subject: Re: Release Notes Archive Patch To: Andres Freund Cc: Tom Lane , "pgsql-www@lists.postgresql.org" References: <751cae66-4d83-5012-94c6-b915bfa03f9e@postgresql.org> <23227.1550070811@sss.pgh.pa.us> <81313189-2e85-062a-f6d9-620298b4b00e@postgresql.org> <25885.1550074702@sss.pgh.pa.us> <5ab20e2d-f291-51db-6761-07daeed5a87a@postgresql.org> <20190213184430.w4uyarc2vsgcvhue@alap3.anarazel.de> From: "Jonathan S. Katz" Openpgp: preference=signencrypt Autocrypt: addr=jkatz@postgresql.org; keydata= mQINBFtShwABEAC7PNHDUOTYuifpUCk23KqfxdQQkn4nkoxOXRK0+rAj36FiwqGB4TJFuOVZ sDFAEiSlC8Jt4y5Cs7B5tetT8JNd2cs6zp/udMJJDz9d65O9PDpdlMgAmIiTzpLlSdx8FG56 DTksaDv1d8j3cTJPSE4/fWSxqzA7o3Y9UuL7atZPrzfImgpRKs0of7elIHwOa8GucjyhYqcR h60wFBJc2KXqQdDYRTZy43DSnY/0VNc0omiH355fustvpm+m5HjD3w7qZyfN3fpKJpnX1LCF f3MnPHaDGITIYGRCBXvf0UqUtD6OEVWPv2C2gyqWMIpWmZTOgDufltKyIByKBoS9x0PlFkij 04X3KODCngt+N8Ssc9OICc6QSxhjoP48PYPdmiTmkrGuf0LX084wj1xeo1NX7XxZK39F6dTJ DhsIiW0sNS0xMxQHLHG9VLbPjx3SANQBh6BuryPz5ZupW9/TIDmkvprtU/oXfKgtfYm3fxmk EctxbWrEPsFTFPyuMqQu6l+xyQv0s1VLZfjNWaua6H1/gGoIt6kRnn5qMXDVVpijuWkHbv7G ngaQMd258UrrOEHnnjzhQ7jxMWV9D+emxbAtlIxnYvCWlV4IwAQhEHfvudqYaIY3hNWrvQ6H GB2KXoTZYN9g5djm14/5nj1IU5zOcovkjJnKhoo9iStnpFF2cwARAQABtCdKb25hdGhhbiBT LiBLYXR6IDxqa2F0ekBwb3N0Z3Jlc3FsLm9yZz6JAlQEEwEIAD4CGwMFCQeGH4AFCwkIBwIG FQoJCAsCBBYCAwECHgECF4AWIQT6hLaVryv3miBkP/HxBJxynxxlJwUCW1KJJQAKCRDxBJxy nxxlJwjrD/kBgqsW4QpNpTFw7ifRokZV08CCX4huPBJQ91rrv+UEWlEcotFBHVkYyHnpzARl tcZxhJ9CbFxjniH9cOTty5T/O1yolbOHtZSW8Z8aWV6BVEbjMb+BFxSSLm7RnvJdzQbGCZq2 ZZvfVpB6z3EHYph4KDdVKvMFjoLskxmdS1DE0tE3zTxvoQsi24Q+HOS07kUjs6fsu/WICMfz mgO++AWG9Y0CvN0mm4TkujESzyKM9E5irD+leEMIcddl51Aa2c/VMfBXQbRmpHIgUFTmuHQD CnQih+9i3OJAksDg66SP8a7yiXv5mwvyDi1EfTGVKYR2j+pwyjwnC3oIbvDMmB3uTn2JIjnT iZKPVtAcAylXjubFltihQgNyuShdP4W+kBwZizhUFqUVL8Anx+KoytYmJPfMRFLGuK4obXKq a2ZS3k9KB+H+isOx2nFJOsc7V360Zp1DVaNmuiK10TT6QndShSPaqkJqFtCb6r92rZ9sZM/L 3vtCI4Rrl3Pt1MgtENXupS8gZpJnAYS0j5A1PAZ09r6ANoaeMHspF+5J5fOHeEvqphXr36mm a83Vl1t4orPb0+QmmijmlpseDU63M88Aw5p3c4qj7t8Qr2EZ5zrn7/sFn5wOfbs8Nymxafif QCnlV2vg9p0m7vSk/yLJ4PFZvs52FgqAGRCdRn0s2EC99bkCDQRbUocAARAAv8ho/toQ9DG3 j4f9h9n1aRHr2FlviN2Utpy6L8+dfDggO0geilmkGQOolZ2E60gGfye/kUtF9W3NByO4hxDR 9u6qbOXcdqnuA+cc68EfqlWFJrVtYFxt0h4ElWYOYnIezKthriWch/FY70FGrxs3z8UHOHq5 0wBW433eTvZm90WixBiXEt2v1DgW4Vr3ymfO7Aap/IYyPuE4JzgudAuAl0HKPyNEHWHG1dAb jX1RiCw9gknIDWQOF0B4UAaJctWGVcnZ3A2ULwNGMa1P9ZJlBWf1vcj01aiHMU0yQ7JjJiSp vfm9eM0uSLwRdDrJjyl5ZZqVumjdv2SMNQ8GvYRbEMys3GGDSt9zXgfCSUnPnJfYxjzBHRI6 x44Wfsx8S6hWxepOogCJJ/g67Bk9mY8YV4klWIXDJVOL5jnBC09DbsZG81JaE2QxB8Y7W36Z Mroi9XMxg3s805hQAQUvdG/poU8hN8BWdrnTm/+4eQQp7gDY1ePDmGM6bJC+OHOSnFtR/f+7 0zpKJ10cc7cBygGnl1yR3KjhFyAWUFvP4ZGziKCcpMwXZfe9PGuyA/YOubMphxIn3YsK2wrd faKZYX2GMZCZhMMcvx9IpQrxIJgU+VlwXu/O+Lk10VIPcxPJJwmpdI6HzcS8ZgG6IMcC444X XTuLaP8j2mgcMvYak3ScCykAEQEAAYkCPAQYAQgAJhYhBPqEtpWvK/eaIGQ/8fEEnHKfHGUn BQJbUocAAhsMBQkHhh+AAAoJEPEEnHKfHGUnReMP/RA2UhGQj+G4uBshkRLjpRysabdPqgQB dEBk6wYbio88Wg/2/hgY7UzmDDEwX3sZfQDcrI6+vIobI8uqstZID+WgAAa1JLfChMyVQnSy 0zfWMOABXscc5tGuvFRZvJklTissMFjXUwaREEKp4ZikTvJ/62MCjSdtrUhnPLvoTsHTKRKD ichE+b5A54alwsubTijw12O6N22r5IjZiiSZV0u7dsShyKw+7wCSax9fuBoE43NMYf+dnjMK nerAQYUcZWYMnk+EC8RaqYAxv6XZ2tKx1AkGGktwkQIBwrz9IlDSvJ3LWJ2UIIuLRTdngNgg GIL4zzuUa2F56FqskQIuYMaNETk6LYfalBDQ6TVLAcgCPQxp4k4i/PRsZ3lZ2ZhRHRYciOvm kp+I6EfHwllQpYrWs1thluBGqlJSVJgKl0IOFvKLsQ6KKfqzAwh6FxrO5qajp4viNIgtWoFw O5Bp0jgFTbH2OrMWIRfUdUCH1Djbuo65svhNj7FNsQVYzHDI+Nd1I/LOBoPc3UorRMF2M4JV kUR7skOHWUbPTSNUr7qc14NSMY3PKjGeVGAsBVHBPvmRx/Ss2tW/TpJWpxg4pmquFQSXuaYh Yf4FN8Sxy320pcr+FqN8AhZkYJcNY82OTtR5VEKRC/mYcyq61qXIKqngydn79bJjGxHipxyF FmEC Message-ID: <475f78b3-a4e5-6cb7-90d5-c5faf116ba31@postgresql.org> Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2019 14:03:03 -0500 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.12; rv:60.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/60.5.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <20190213184430.w4uyarc2vsgcvhue@alap3.anarazel.de> Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha256; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="62RNxelVxWsRdKylwCbliidqQ4jI3mCxD" X-Host-Lookup-Failed: Reverse DNS lookup failed for 63.118.15.50 (failed) List-Id: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Post: List-Owner: List-Archive: Precedence: bulk This is an OpenPGP/MIME signed message (RFC 4880 and 3156) --62RNxelVxWsRdKylwCbliidqQ4jI3mCxD Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="yZljAPQoajXJ27pnfOweMiM9JCNLQfE4k"; protected-headers="v1" From: "Jonathan S. Katz" To: Andres Freund Cc: Tom Lane , "pgsql-www@lists.postgresql.org" Message-ID: <475f78b3-a4e5-6cb7-90d5-c5faf116ba31@postgresql.org> Subject: Re: Release Notes Archive Patch References: <751cae66-4d83-5012-94c6-b915bfa03f9e@postgresql.org> <23227.1550070811@sss.pgh.pa.us> <81313189-2e85-062a-f6d9-620298b4b00e@postgresql.org> <25885.1550074702@sss.pgh.pa.us> <5ab20e2d-f291-51db-6761-07daeed5a87a@postgresql.org> <20190213184430.w4uyarc2vsgcvhue@alap3.anarazel.de> In-Reply-To: <20190213184430.w4uyarc2vsgcvhue@alap3.anarazel.de> --yZljAPQoajXJ27pnfOweMiM9JCNLQfE4k Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On 2/13/19 1:44 PM, Andres Freund wrote: > Hi, >=20 > On 2019-02-13 13:01:46 -0500, Jonathan S. Katz wrote: >> So, in anticipation of push back, I also want to provide some stats. I= >> looked at overall traffic since Jul 1, 2018 to yesterday. Traffic to a= ny >> of the release notes in general was a very small chunk of it (< 0.5%).= >=20 > Given the number of pages, that doesn't seem that small. I personally > have hit broken /devel/release-xy.html links several times since the > hasty removal. It's an incredibly small amount relative to other parts of the site. By the above measure, it's statistically insignificant even with alpha of .0= 1 To give it more context, it makes up 1% of all pages that are viewed in the documentation. Looking from Jul 1, 2018, in the top 100 viewed doc pages, #91 was the PG11 release, and nothing else. Basically, the major release pushes the views of the release notes way up by a significant portion. Also, this did hurt my workflow as well when putting together the press release. Given the release notes were not in devel, I ended up building the docs from the REL_11_STABLE branch to put it together (rather than parsing the SGML manually). It was inconvenient, but IMV the benefits far outweigh the inconvenience. >=20 >=20 >> From a user experience perspective, does it stink that we're potential= ly >> creating a bunch of 404s? Yes. Is it going to upset some people? Yes, >> and I'm sympathetic to that. However, looking at the overall numbers, = I >> think we'll be ok, even if we don't have the redirects per Magnus' >> suggestion downthread (which I will also reply to). >=20 > We're going to break current/relase-xy.html links after every single > major release this way. This seems absurd. We mentioned a way we can fix this -- having a map from /current/ (and if need be /devel) to the proper version of the old release notes can be done with some regular expressions, as Magnus said. It should not be too difficult to do. I may even be able to get a POC done later today. > I'm quite pissed at how haphazardly this was done. We had discussion on this for months, and after some idling, we proposed a solution and worked through it quickly. Sometimes you just need to rip the band-aid off. The nice thing about web is that you can test your assumptions and iterate much more quickly than other ways to deliver software (e.g. a database). Thanks, Jonathan --yZljAPQoajXJ27pnfOweMiM9JCNLQfE4k-- --62RNxelVxWsRdKylwCbliidqQ4jI3mCxD Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: OpenPGP digital signature Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQIzBAEBCAAdFiEE+oS2la8r95ogZD/x8QSccp8cZScFAlxkaecACgkQ8QSccp8c ZSeXaw/8DXCT6CfpQQBqbSaEZCu9G4s4Wqnm5nWhULvbgScOBefa/IfKVNMVfFXt dfixcd9M/iPawPRtpQADajcck7hASFoGyyi3iPPrDkDtqTBe7o3afvcYC6B9Ypeo 1f5vX82h5P9Vpf7QN3ag/LfWee/lhFMsvKgek2Uurkytum80wkVV4OqyhgRufwT1 4ETP15iuwqovw6bozrsx9MvxzOUDMxmXTu5GmnMvCfO6df08YWM2sMXxbWOaqps2 HeKheSkvPmE+PhMo42y9TkFPSFJc3BQpj/sYvJvNIfMlh75rO/1UP/De6WbwHG4s xemQEgt/AiwEiAYV7rqz9x9DMklOGu3aUXNKLTqkPHEs9cL0WBlgWJPzzdijORd9 zRHzZVfkxsQYHA4oOXS92pSz5TeySrMv8bKCJ+iecC7bAmkJ1RyBkFTfQyzO+DXQ tiqJTD+iZs6N2XHiZjE4E9iZ5Rds28kJf4fBtQvt/mUaEKhTuIPoXLP3tBDQwpX8 Y6YrQCWSqhP1ZEDEk9dDQNhenv0AVg712zwm8UVupt9SkcT7FULcr/eTdnhkIYpU wIxsFyQP4Dy+A9prMcdV4m8/ON7+0Agf5mw6oqNeam4yaCd/IdfNUze9FVzFg3mL Xcj6yEGsyXSXjahZQQWWgjhUrqqo8poq9yCTbShmYH3eMmIlFOA= =91DT -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --62RNxelVxWsRdKylwCbliidqQ4jI3mCxD--