Received: from localhost (unknown [200.46.204.183]) by developer.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CCF012E00B7 for ; Tue, 3 Jun 2008 18:10:40 -0300 (ADT) Received: from developer.postgresql.org ([200.46.204.71]) by localhost (mx1.hub.org [200.46.204.183]) (amavisd-maia, port 10024) with ESMTP id 16096-08 for ; Tue, 3 Jun 2008 18:10:33 -0300 (ADT) X-Greylist: from auto-whitelisted by SQLgrey-1.7.6 Received: from smtp138.iad.emailsrvr.com (smtp138.iad.emailsrvr.com [207.97.245.138]) by developer.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 573C02E00BF for ; Tue, 3 Jun 2008 18:10:36 -0300 (ADT) Received: from relay3.r3.iad.emailsrvr.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by relay3.r3.iad.emailsrvr.com (SMTP Server) with ESMTP id 2677544C322; Tue, 3 Jun 2008 17:10:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: by relay3.r3.iad.emailsrvr.com (Authenticated sender: chander-AT-otg-nc.com) with ESMTP id BF0B744C2FD; Tue, 3 Jun 2008 17:10:34 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <4845B34A.2040909@otg-nc.com> Date: Tue, 03 Jun 2008 17:10:34 -0400 From: Chander Ganesan User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.14 (Windows/20080421) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Robert Treat CC: pgsql-www@postgresql.org, Simon Riggs , "Joshua D. Drake" , Magnus Hagander Subject: Re: replace training blurb with upcoming pug meetings? References: <200805281218.20373.xzilla@users.sourceforge.net> <1211997489.5508.39.camel@jd-laptop> <1212012679.4489.716.camel@ebony.site> <200805282110.54958.xzilla@users.sourceforge.net> In-Reply-To: <200805282110.54958.xzilla@users.sourceforge.net> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------060306020404090801000308" X-Virus-Scanned: Maia Mailguard 1.0.1 X-Archive-Number: 200806/17 X-Sequence-Number: 15244 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------060306020404090801000308 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-15; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Robert Treat wrote: > On Wednesday 28 May 2008 18:11:19 Simon Riggs wrote: > >> On Wed, 2008-05-28 at 10:58 -0700, Joshua D. Drake wrote: >> >>> On Wed, 2008-05-28 at 19:47 +0200, Magnus Hagander wrote: >>> >>>> Robert Treat wrote: >>>> >>>>> In an effort to give more visibility to the pugs, one idea that was >>>>> floated around was replacing the training blurb on the main site with >>>>> an "upcoming pugs" section, modeled after the upcoming events. The >>>>> training blurb would then be changed to a direct link saying "looking >>>>> for training?" (or similar) which would take you to the full training >>>>> page. There are some logistical issues that would need to be worked >>>>> out to make this happen, but before we go down that path, I wanted to >>>>> get a general consensus on the idea. thoughts? >>>>> >>>> Any way we can have both? I agree it's a good idea to get upcoming >>>> pugs, but I'd like to keep the training info somehow. >>>> >>> I think it is a matter of deciding the purpose of the space. IMO .Org >>> should be all about community, not all about advertising for commercial >>> providers. That isn't to say we shouldn't help the people who help us >>> (obviously) but it is to say that a PUG should come before CMD, EDB or >>> any other commercial entity listed. >>> >>> That being said, we have a problem in that the front page is remarkably >>> cluttered. It is trying to tell people entirely too much all at once. >>> Something has to give if we are going to add PUGS. Training or Latest >>> News seems the most appropriate. >>> >> Yes, it is cluttered, so I think we should scroll down the page and make >> more space for ourselves. >> >> The community includes commercial people too. And the commercial people >> only exist because they are wanted and needed. >> >> The suggestion to have a list of PUGs over training could go the other >> way too. We could say "Want a PUG?". If they do, they'll click. That is >> of course fairly silly, but then so is "Want training?", which hides >> anything interesting and unusual and effectively kills it. If we do that >> I may as well pack up and just offer one course called "Training". >> >> > > See, to me the current training blurb is already devoid enough of content that > I think it is only marginally better than a direct link pointing people > towards the full training. Adding in a list of PUG meetings helps highlight > the growing regional presence and international communities for postgres > around the world. I feel this used to be accomplished by the training > listing, but there was so much gamesmanship between the training companies > that we had to mold it into it's current, less than exciting, format. I don't > expect that gamesmanship from the PUGS. > > I'd have to whole-heartedly agree. We saw a lot more interest in training when there were a few courses listed on the main page (those few being the ones that we would tend to get the most calls about). With the shift to not showing any courses on the main page (due to event spam of sorts), the interest has really waned (though its difficult to determine if this is due to economic factors as opposed to page changing, I think it has to do a little with both). I think a single link to training in a spot of its very own would provide a bit more visibility than being cluttered with some text and a link. Perhaps we can have some list of the number of events as well? Want training (22 events coming up!)? -- Chander Ganesan Open Technology Group, Inc. One Copley Parkway, Suite 210 Morrisville, NC 27560 919-463-0999/877-258-8987 http://www.otg-nc.com --------------060306020404090801000308 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-15 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Robert Treat wrote: 
On Wednesday 28 May 2008 18:11:19 Simon Riggs wrote:
  
On Wed, 2008-05-28 at 10:58 -0700, Joshua D. Drake wrote:
    
On Wed, 2008-05-28 at 19:47 +0200, Magnus Hagander wrote:
      
Robert Treat wrote:
        
In an effort to give more visibility to the pugs, one idea that was
floated around was replacing the training blurb on the main site with
an "upcoming pugs" section, modeled after the upcoming events.  The
training blurb would then be changed to a direct link saying "looking
for training?" (or similar) which would take you to the full training
page.  There are some logistical issues that would need to be worked
out to make this happen, but before we go down that path, I wanted to
get a general consensus on the idea. thoughts?
          
Any way we can have both? I agree it's a good idea to get upcoming
pugs, but I'd like to keep the training info somehow.
        
I think it is a matter of deciding the purpose of the space. IMO .Org
should be all about community, not all about advertising for commercial
providers. That isn't to say we shouldn't help the people who help us
(obviously) but it is to say that a PUG should come before CMD, EDB or
any other commercial entity listed.

That being said, we have a problem in that the front page is remarkably
cluttered. It is trying to tell people entirely too much all at once.
Something has to give if we are going to add PUGS. Training or Latest
News seems the most appropriate.
      
Yes, it is cluttered, so I think we should scroll down the page and make
more space for ourselves.

The community includes commercial people too. And the commercial people
only exist because they are wanted and needed.

The suggestion to have a list of PUGs over training could go the other
way too. We could say "Want a PUG?". If they do, they'll click. That is
of course fairly silly, but then so is "Want training?", which hides
anything interesting and unusual and effectively kills it. If we do that
I may as well pack up and just offer one course called "Training".

    

See, to me the current training blurb is already devoid enough of content that 
I think it is only marginally better than a direct link pointing people 
towards the full training.  Adding in a list of PUG meetings helps highlight 
the growing regional presence and international communities for postgres 
around the world.  I feel this used to be accomplished by the training 
listing, but there was so much gamesmanship between the training companies 
that we had to mold it into it's current, less than exciting, format. I don't 
expect that gamesmanship from the PUGS.
I'd have to whole-heartedly agree.  We saw a lot more interest in training when there were a few courses listed on the main page (those few being the ones that we would tend to get the most calls about).  With the shift to not showing any courses on the main page (due to event spam of sorts), the interest has really waned (though its difficult to determine if this is due to economic factors as opposed to page changing, I think it has to do a little with both).

I think a single link to training in a spot of its very own would provide a bit more visibility than being cluttered with some text and a link.  Perhaps we can have some list of the number of events as well?  Want training (22 events coming up!)?

-- 
Chander Ganesan
Open Technology Group, Inc.
One Copley Parkway, Suite 210
Morrisville, NC  27560
919-463-0999/877-258-8987
http://www.otg-nc.com
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