Subject: Audio & Video?

From: Josh Berkus <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2009 12:36:19 -0800

All,

Where should I upload audio & video files?  These are quite large, and 
none of the existing servers will take them.

Do we need a new donated machine for this?

--Josh

---

From: Dave Page <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2009 20:40:11 +0000

> none of the existing servers will take them.

What makes you say that?

> Do we need a new donated machine for this?

Err, no. We have plenty of hardware.

-- 
Dave Page
EnterpriseDB UK:   http://www.enterprisedb.com

---

From: Tom Lane <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2009 15:44:10 -0500

> What makes you say that?

If they're that large, what makes you think anyone will want to download
them?

			regards, tom lane

---

From: Josh Berkus <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2009 12:55:08 -0800

> If they're that large, what makes you think anyone will want to download

Podcasts are a whole *industry* now.  If you hadn't noticed.

--Josh

---

From: Stefan Kaltenbrunner <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2009 21:57:37 +0100

> Podcasts are a whole *industry* now.  If you hadn't noticed.

so what exactly do you need?

Stefan

---

From: Josh Berkus <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2009 13:08:59 -0800

> so what exactly do you need?

Well, for the immediate term just someplace I can upload large 
audio/video files where users can download them.  For example, for the 
SFPUG talk I just uploaded to the wiki, I have about 100MB of audio. 
Next month, I'm expecting to have video of the SFPUG meeting.

Ultimately, I'd really like to have a podcast portion of the 
postgresql.org which organizes this and presents it in a way that people 
can easily find new stuff.  But we could wait for us to consistently 
generate content, first.

--Josh

---

From: Guido Barosio <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2009 19:18:43 -0200

Josh,

<quote>
I have about 100MB of audio
</quote>

One single piece of audio or several small pieces? Which compression
are you using?

gb.-

On Wed, Feb 11, 2009 at 7:08 PM, Josh Berkus <[email-masked]> wrote:
> Well, for the immediate term just someplace I can upload large audio/video
> files where users can download them.  For example, for the SFPUG talk I just
> uploaded to the wiki, I have about 100MB of audio. Next month, I'm expecting
> to have video of the SFPUG meeting.
>
> Ultimately, I'd really like to have a podcast portion of the postgresql.org
> which organizes this and presents it in a way that people can easily find
> new stuff.  But we could wait for us to consistently generate content,
> first.
>
> --Josh
>
>
> --
> Sent via pgsql-www mailing list ([email-masked])
> To make changes to your subscription:
> http://www.postgresql.org/mailpref/pgsql-www
>

---

From: Tom Lane <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2009 16:32:36 -0500

> SFPUG talk I just uploaded to the wiki, I have about 100MB of audio. 

We chew 100MB+ on the ftp server (multiplied by some large number of
mirrors) every time we make a new set of source releases; not to mention
the binaries that soon follow.  100MB isn't "large" by current
standards.

It's probably fair to discuss what is a reasonable space budget for
audio/video stuff, and maybe to try to prevent it from being mirrored
if the sysadmins think that would be a good idea.  But this doesn't
strike me as being too large for the servers we've got.

			regards, tom lane

---

From: Stefan Kaltenbrunner <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2009 22:47:16 +0100

> the binaries that soon follow.  100MB isn't "large" by current

indeed

> strike me as being too large for the servers we've got.

we have more than enough resources to host stuff like this - the wiki 
allows uploads of content of up to 100MB per object (it used to display 
a warning for stuff that was larger than 150kb but I just disabled 
that). If we have larger stuff or different needs we can always 
distribute via ftp.postgresql.org and the mirror network behind it.

Stefan

---

From: Alvaro Herrera <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2009 19:02:11 -0300

> that).

I think the Wiki is not a good place for storing such things.  It barely
knows that binary files are "images"

---

From: "Gavin M. Roy" <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2009 18:33:30 -0500

I'd agree that this probably doesn't belong in the Wiki or the main www
tree.  Perhaps a simple host: media.postgresql.org would suffice, with a
plain html index template that Josh can edit as he adds items and the
ability to serve the content.
If setting up a jail and such for this is a pain right now, I could setup a
vhost on my shared hosting box for the time being and setup a generic
template for you to edit, Josh.

Gavin

---

From: Guido Barosio <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2009 22:07:02 -0200

IMHO if this comes from *PUG, then that *PUG should take the call and
sort this out with their resources.

After that, a ping to -advocacy and maybe -www in order to let the
community know that things are in place.

/* capacity planning */
Otherwise:
- we are facing a big amount of media heading *.postgresql.org sooner or later.
- postgresql.org resources will be assigned to keep this.  /*
sysadmins running against nagios complaining about space, for instance
*/

I do support and appreciate Josh's work, in fact the idea and effort
rock. But I am a bit concerned on how to handle future situations. If
this grows we are gonna face a big problem. One single meeting created
100mb. How many meetings / events / talks are we planning to store? I
do have the BsAs December talks still in HD, ~ 1gb of media.

Another point of view could be the fact that "spreading the bytes"
helps the project advocacy because of the single fact that more sites
contain postgresql content.

2 cents and nothing more than that, please feel free to tag this as a
stupid mail.

gb.-

On Wed, Feb 11, 2009 at 9:33 PM, Gavin M. Roy <[email-masked]> wrote:
> On Wed, Feb 11, 2009 at 5:02 PM, Alvaro Herrera <[email-masked]>
> wrote:
>>

---

From: "Marc G. Fournier" <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2009 21:40:49 -0400 (AST)

> Podcasts are a whole *industry* now.  If you hadn't noticed.

Has anyone talked to Youtube about this?  They now have a BSD channel for 
podcasts, maybe they would be willing to setup a PostgreSQL channel?

----
Marc G. Fournier           Hub.Org Networking Services (http://www.hub.org)
Email . [email-masked]                              MSN . [email-masked]
Yahoo . yscrappy               Skype: hub.org        ICQ . 7615664

---

From: "Marc G. Fournier" <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2009 21:44:11 -0400 (AST)

> strike me as being too large for the servers we've got.

could do pub/av section on the ftp server easily enough ... then no one 
site would be "hit" for the bandwidth ...

----

---

From: "Joshua D. Drake" <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2009 18:25:46 -0800

> podcasts, maybe they would be willing to setup a PostgreSQL channel?

Timelimits are the problem. That is why I suggested Vimeo.

Joshua D. Drake

-- 
PostgreSQL - XMPP: [email-masked]
   Consulting, Development, Support, Training
   503-667-4564 - http://www.commandprompt.com/
   The PostgreSQL Company, serving since 1997

---

From: Dave Page <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2009 09:24:47 +0000

On Thu, Feb 12, 2009 at 1:44 AM, Marc G. Fournier <[email-masked]> wrote:

> could do pub/av section on the ftp server easily enough ... then no one site
> would be "hit" for the bandwidth ...

What worries me about that is when files start to get much bigger than
100MB, or a bunch are added at once (think 2 day conference with a
dozen or more hour long talks), when they get uploaded to the ftp
site, within a 24 hour window we'll get around 100 mirrors all trying
to rsync them at once - probably far more bandwidth than people
actually viewing the stuff!

We have plenty of spare hardware atm (we have 4 new boxes coming
online at the moment with very good connectivity) - we can easily
setup a dedicated server for this, or I kinda like Marc's YouTube
idea.

---

From: Magnus Hagander <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2009 10:26:24 +0100

> setup a dedicated server for this, or I kinda like Marc's YouTube

We have an offer from RackSpace for some cloud storage. Initially that was
for internal access only, but we could always talk to them and see if they
can provide it with external access as well.

//Magnus

---

From: Dave Page <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2009 09:45:30 +0000

> can provide it with external access as well.

We can keep that for the backups. We've got plenty of real hardware we
can use for podcasts if need be.

---

From: Selena Deckelmann <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2009 06:23:01 -0800

> setup a dedicated server for this, or I kinda like Marc's YouTube

+1 for YouTube and other social networking services. There is also a   
postgres-backed company that has hosted high quality video for us in  
the past. I'll dig up that contact if what you want is long term  
storage only.

But if the point is marketing and reaching out beyond out normal  
borders, YouTube, flickr, and other socially-oriented services are  
going to be the most effective.

-Selena

---

From: "Joshua D. Drake" <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2009 07:17:22 -0800

On Thu, 2009-02-12 at 09:24 +0000, Dave Page wrote:
> 100MB, 

Consider if I started uploading postgresql conference videos.

This really needs to be using an actual service like Vimeo or something.

Joshua D. Drake

---

From: Bruce Momjian <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2009 11:53:03 -0500 (EST)

> This really needs to be using an actual service like Vimeo or something.

Agreed.  This is more than just file storage --- think player streaming,
converting to a common video format, etc.

-- 
  Bruce Momjian  <[email-masked]>        http://momjian.us
  EnterpriseDB                             http://enterprisedb.com

  + If your life is a hard drive, Christ can be your backup. +

---

From: Josh Berkus <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2009 13:32:02 -0800

> This really needs to be using an actual service like Vimeo or something.

OK, that makes sense.  Is there a similar service for audio-only 
podcasts, though?

Also, I think what we need is somewhere on the website where we *index* 
all of this stuff.  In fact ... if we just had a way to post audio 
files, and re-distribute RSS for video to planet.postgresql.org, that 
would be very helpful.

Same thing with slides, actually.

--Josh

---

From: "Joshua D. Drake" <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2009 14:30:56 -0800

> OK, that makes sense.  Is there a similar service for audio-only 

A quick google gives me:

http://switchpod.com/
http://www.podbean.com/
http://labnol.blogspot.com/2006/08/how-to-choose-podcast-host-compare.html

> files, and re-distribute RSS for video to planet.postgresql.org, that 

Yes that would be cool.

Joshua D. Drake

---

From: Peter Eisentraut <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2009 10:28:57 +0200

Selena Deckelmann wrote:
> postgres-backed company that has hosted high quality video for us in the 
> past. I'll dig up that contact if what you want is long term storage only.

YouTube or similar is nice because it creates exposure.  But I'd also 
like to see a system that gives me access to the plan files for 
downloading or playing in my own playing system.  As an example: 
http://ftp.ccc.de/congress/25c3/ -- plain and simple.

---

From: Dave Page <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2009 09:06:32 +0000

On Fri, Feb 13, 2009 at 8:28 AM, Peter Eisentraut <[email-masked]> wrote:
> YouTube or similar is nice because it creates exposure.

Agreed.

> But I'd also like
> to see a system that gives me access to the plan files for downloading or
> playing in my own playing system.  As an example:

We can do that as well, and have it integrate nicely into the website
- just not replicate it onto the mirrors network.

---

From: Josh Berkus <[email-masked]>
Date: Sun, 15 Mar 2009 11:32:30 -0700

WWW team,

So, we have our first video, as threatened.  YouTube and Vimeo won't 
take it, it's too long.  So where do we put it?

--Josh

---

From: Dave Page <[email-masked]>
Date: Sun, 15 Mar 2009 18:36:19 +0000

On Sun, Mar 15, 2009 at 6:32 PM, Josh Berkus <[email-masked]> wrote:
> WWW team,
>
> So, we have our first video, as threatened.  YouTube and Vimeo won't take
> it, it's too long.  So where do we put it?

How big is it?

---

From: Josh Berkus <[email-masked]>
Date: Sun, 15 Mar 2009 11:37:17 -0700

>> it, it's too long.  So where do we put it?

400MB.  It's about an hour.

--Josh

---

From: Dave Page <[email-masked]>
Date: Sun, 15 Mar 2009 18:41:29 +0000

> 400MB.  It's about an hour.

OK. I can setup a media.postgresql.org server with an apache server
giving access to the raw files - will that do for now? We can think
about a fancy web interface later, and just link to the files from
elsewhere for now (I have a few from PG UK as well).

---

From: "Joshua D. Drake" <[email-masked]>
Date: Sun, 15 Mar 2009 11:56:10 -0700

> take it, it's too long.  So where do we put it?

Vimeo will take it if you have a pro account, which I do. I will upload
it there if you like.

Sincerely,

Joshua D. Drake

---

From: Cédric Villemain <[email-masked]>
Date: Sun, 15 Mar 2009 23:51:52 +0100

Josh Berkus a écrit :
>>> take

I don't know what is the size limit at dailymotion, but we have a partnership  :
http://www.dailymotion.com/PostgreSQLFR (so if you are interested, let me know
and I'll find more info)

Anyway, I suggest to split videos which are too long : easyest to upload, and if
you don't look the entire video in one shot, then you don't have to wait for the
40 first minutes to download to watch the last 20.
It is then easy to have a 'playlist' et voilà.

- --
Cédric Villemain
Administrateur de Base de Données
Cel: +33 (0)6 74 15 56 53
http://dalibo.com - http://dalibo.org

---

From: Cédric Villemain <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 16 Mar 2009 10:25:14 +0100

> It is then easy to have a 'playlist' et voilà.

Jean-Paul suggest (what look for me an exccellent idea) to use .torrent if we
want to share the video, else I still think it is better to split it in order to
 let it viewable via a website.

- --
Cédric Villemain

---

From: Dave Page <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 16 Mar 2009 09:30:49 +0000

>  let it viewable via a website.

The project doesn't use torrents any more - we've never had much luck
with them, I think because not enough people use them at once to make
it effective.

---

From: Peter Eisentraut <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 16 Mar 2009 18:51:23 +0200

> 400MB.  It's about an hour.

Split into chunks of 10 minutes and upload those.  People watch television 
series like that on Youtube nowadays.

Putting the whole file on media.postgresql.org or similar would be good in 
addition, of course.

I look forward to watching it in any case.

---

From: Josh Berkus <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 16 Mar 2009 11:50:48 -0700

Dave,

> elsewhere for now (I have a few from PG UK as well).

That would be great.  The eventual interface should include an RSS feed 
to notify people of new videos as well.

--Josh

---

From: "Joshua D. Drake" <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 17 Mar 2009 21:57:06 -0700

> take it, it's too long.  So where do we put it?

As promised, it is now on Vimeo:

http://www.vimeo.com/3732938

Joshua D. Drake

---

From: Josh Berkus <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 18 Mar 2009 12:16:58 -0700

> http://www.vimeo.com/3732938

keen, thanks!

Time to blog it.

Does vimeo give you download stats?

--Josh

---

From: "Joshua D. Drake" <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 18 Mar 2009 12:32:35 -0700

> Does vimeo give you download stats?

It looks like we get plays, likes and comments. I am not sure if it logs
actual downloads but it does log referrers.

Joshua D. Drake