Message-ID: <5123D591.8010304@agliodbs.com>
Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2013 11:42:09 -0800
From: Josh Berkus <josh@agliodbs.com>
Organization: PostgreSQL Experts Inc.
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To: Martin Pitt <mpitt@debian.org>
CC: PostgreSQL WWW <pgsql-www@postgresql.org>,
	PostgreSQL in Debian <pgsql-pkg-debian@postgresql.org>
Subject: Re: [pgsql-pkg-debian] Re: We should not transition to
	apt.postgresql.org until we have a PPA
References: <20130216153309.GF12029@momjian.us>
	<20130216234034.GG12029@momjian.us>
	<20130217054028.GA6000@alvh.no-ip.org>
	<20130217121745.GH12029@momjian.us>
	<20130218020824.GA4691@alvh.no-ip.org>
	<20130219120304.GB20153@momjian.us> <512379E2.1070806@bluegap.ch>
	<20130219132022.GC20153@momjian.us> <51237E69.2020903@bluegap.ch>
	<20130219134431.GD20153@momjian.us>
	<20130219154118.GG3033@piware.de>
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On 02/19/2013 07:41 AM, Martin Pitt wrote:
> Bruce Momjian [2013-02-19  8:44 -0500]:
>> I have been running Ubuntu for 5 years and didn't know the code name of
>> my release until I had to track a bug report a few months ago.
> 
> Believe it or not, that's actually great to hear :) The code names are
> mostly some fun thing for developers to avoid breaking our tongues too
> much when we talk about it. But they have never been meant to be
> exposed in stable releases. All announcements, web sites, etc. always
> say "Ubuntu 12.04", not "Precise Pangolin".

Except that apt.postgresql.org says "Precise Pangolin" and DOESN'T say
Ubuntu 12.04.

Warning: Tangent follows.

Bringing it up only because two people asked "what's the big deal with
code names?"  Most people should probably ignore this.

The reason why people who are not full-time Ubuntu or Debian admins hate
the code names is that they are used inconsistently by the projects, and
you are expected to "just know" what they mean.  Ubuntu is especially
bad about this, using the release date numbering in all its official
correspondence (e.g. Ubuntu 12.04) but then using the code names
exclusively in the software repositories, and sometimes even the
*abbreviated* versions of the code names only, without supplying an
easy-to-find mapping anywhere.  Generally if I want to find out the code
name for 11.10, for example, I have to go onto #ubuntu and ask.  And
don't get me started on "Must be using Pangolin or later".

For someone who admins many servers running many different OSes, this is
a constant PITA, and forces me to take more time figuring out how to
upgrade software on Ubuntu than it takes me with other OSes, even
Windows, whose version names are highly arbitrary, but at least are
consistent and few in number.  Although lately Apple is even worse,
using code names inconsistenly which aren't even alphabetical, and using
code names which are remarkably similar ("Lion" vs. "Snow Lion"?  Really?).

Debian and Ubuntu community members do not see this as a problem because
they assume you are immersed in their world and thus carry around a
Debian and/or Ubuntu release history in your head.  But most people don't.

I'm sure that Postgres has it's only parallels to this kind of problem
(not the least of which is the project name), but I don't know that
anyone regards those warts as *features*.

End tangent.

-- 
Josh Berkus
PostgreSQL Experts Inc.
http://pgexperts.com


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