Subject: New News Entry

From: [email-masked] (World Wide Web Owner)
Date: Wed, 14 Apr 2004 13:48:32 -0300 (ADT)

A new entry has been added to the news database.

Database Admin: http://www.postgresql.org/admin/edit_news.php?179

Submitted by: [email-masked]
Headline: Fujitsu Funds PostgreSQL Features
Summary:

Fujitsu is funding various PostgreSQL enhancements that will appear in future PostgreSQL releases.

Story:

Fujitsu is funding various PostgreSQL enhancements that will appear in future PostgreSQL releases.

They have contracted with existing community developers who were already working on these complex features.  With Fujitsu\'s funding, these developers can more easily devote the large amount of time required to complete these complex enhancements.

These features include:

   o  tablespaces
   o  improved JDBC standards compliance
   o  server-side java (PL/J)
   o  nested transactions

If your company wants to do similar funding, please contact me or one of the other core developers.  We can help you identify competent developers and arrange appropriate funding.

---

From: Devrim GUNDUZ <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 14 Apr 2004 19:53:26 +0300 (EEST)

Hi,

News approved. Will appear in next site build.

Regards, Devrim

On Wed, 14 Apr 2004, World Wide Web Owner wrote:

> ---------------------------(end of broadcast)---------------------------
> TIP 8: explain analyze is your friend
> 

-- 
Devrim GUNDUZ	       
[email-masked]				[email-masked] 
			http://www.TDMSoft.com
			http://www.gunduz.org

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From: Peter Eisentraut <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 14 Apr 2004 19:03:38 +0200

> News approved. Will appear in next site build.

Oh, so everytime someone pays someone to develop a PostgreSQL feature, 
it's a news item?  I'll have to remember that...

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From: "Gavin M. Roy" <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 14 Apr 2004 10:16:31 -0700

If it's a substantial contribution, which some would argue that Nested 
Transactions alone is, and it's not vapor-ware, whats the problem with that?

Gavin

Peter Eisentraut wrote:

>TIP 6: Have you searched our list archives?
>
>               http://archives.postgresql.org
>  
>

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From: Peter Eisentraut <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 14 Apr 2004 19:26:47 +0200

Gavin M. Roy wrote:
> If it's a substantial contribution, which some would argue that
> Nested Transactions alone is, and it's not vapor-ware, whats the
> problem with that?

So far it is vaporware. And no one can verify what kind of agreement has 
been made or who is developing this code or whether it will go into any 
release.  The people coding it aren't even mentioned.  It's just the 
same old "MySQL 4.1 will include views" nonsense that we should stay 
away from.

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From: "Marc G. Fournier" <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 14 Apr 2004 14:45:57 -0300 (ADT)

> it's a news item?  I'll have to remember that...

Agree with Peter here ... are we going to see another news item when the
feature is actually developed and added to the code?

----
Marc G. Fournier           Hub.Org Networking Services (http://www.hub.org)
Email: [email-masked]           Yahoo!: yscrappy              ICQ: 7615664

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From: "Marc G. Fournier" <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 14 Apr 2004 14:46:31 -0300 (ADT)

> Transactions alone is, and it's not vapor-ware, whats the problem with

the fact that it *is* vapor-ware right now is the problem ... the code
hasn't been written, its been contracted out to *be* written ... sometime
in the future ...

> TIP 5: Have you checked our extensive FAQ?
>
>                http://www.postgresql.org/docs/faqs/FAQ.html
>

----

---

From: Bruce Momjian <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 14 Apr 2004 13:51:38 -0400 (EDT)

> hasn't been written, its been contracted out to *be* written ... sometime

Gavin Sherry it doing tablespaces, Dave Cramer the java items, and
Alvaro the nested transactions.  All coding started 1-3 months ago.  I
am committed to paying them, and Fujitsu will pay me through SRA.

The point is that Fujitsu is funding development of features.  The
features themselves aren't important, and can be removed from the news
item if desired.

-- 
  Bruce Momjian                        |  http://candle.pha.pa.us
  [email-masked]               |  (610) 359-1001
  +  If your life is a hard drive,     |  13 Roberts Road
  +  Christ can be your backup.        |  Newtown Square, Pennsylvania 19073

---

From: Robert Treat <[email-masked]>
Date: 14 Apr 2004 13:56:39 -0400

> feature is actually developed and added to the code?

How about we drop it from the main page and instead I'll put a blurb in
the weekly news with the mention to contact Bruce/Core if your company
would like to help fund development. Once we get actual patches into CVS
for these features, we can add news items for them attributing
sponsorship of the feature to whomever funded it. This will also give us
some pre-buzz about upcoming features for the next release, but not ones
that are vaporware. 

Robert Treat
-- 
Build A Brighter Lamp :: Linux Apache {middleware} PostgreSQL

---

From: "Gavin M. Roy" <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 14 Apr 2004 11:00:17 -0700

My point was Peter originally wasn't complaining about vaporware, it was 
about pimping commercial sponsors, at least how I read it.

Gavin

---

From: Bruce Momjian <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 14 Apr 2004 14:03:58 -0400 (EDT)

> some pre-buzz about upcoming features for the next release, but not ones

I think it is a valid news item because it highlights (well known)
companies funding PostgreSQL development.  Just ditch the feature list.

I agree we can post the feature item once it is in CVS.

---

From: "Marc G. Fournier" <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 14 Apr 2004 15:06:16 -0300 (ADT)

> some pre-buzz about upcoming features for the next release, but not ones

I think this would be alot more appropriate ...

----

---

From: "Marc G. Fournier" <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 14 Apr 2004 15:06:56 -0300 (ADT)

> companies funding PostgreSQL development.  Just ditch the feature list.

Agreed here too ... then it becomes no different then "SRA hires Bruce
Momjian" ... but, I think those doing the work should be mentioned as
well, no?

----

---

From: Bruce Momjian <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 14 Apr 2004 14:24:40 -0400 (EDT)

> Momjian" ... but, I think those doing the work should be mentioned as

OK, where should we go from here?  Remove the item?  Remove the feature
list?  Add names of folks?

---

From: Robert Treat <[email-masked]>
Date: 14 Apr 2004 14:25:56 -0400

> Momjian" ... but, I think those doing the work should be mentioned as

If you add the names of developers, isn't the very next question going
to be "what are you guys up to?" 

Of course just saying fujitsu is funding development will leads people
to ask who and what so I am not sure I see the point in any of it if we
don't do full disclosure...  

Incidentally someone ought to update the TODO list to mark down who is
tackling what, which is another place we can mention fujitsu's
sponsorship if people want.  

Robert Treat

---

From: Bruce Momjian <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 14 Apr 2004 14:33:35 -0400 (EDT)

> sponsorship if people want.  

TODO updated.  Thanks.

---

From: "Marc G. Fournier" <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 14 Apr 2004 15:43:50 -0300 (ADT)

> list?  Add names of folks?

remove feature list and add names of folks ...

----

---

From: Bruce Momjian <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 14 Apr 2004 15:15:11 -0400 (EDT)

> remove feature list and add names of folks ...

OK, can someone make that change.  The names are:

	Dave Cramer <[email-masked]>
	Gavin Sherry <[email-masked]>
	Alvaro Herrera <[email-masked]>

---

From: "Marc G. Fournier" <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 14 Apr 2004 16:17:24 -0300 (ADT)

> 	Alvaro Herrera <[email-masked]>

The other thought that someone else brought up that might be appropriate
would be to leave the feature list, but attribute it with the person that
they contracted to do it ... then, if nothing else, its not as much
vaporware, and ppl can nag those developers for status *muhahaha*

----

---

From: Bruce Momjian <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 14 Apr 2004 15:21:42 -0400 (EDT)

> vaporware, and ppl can nag those developers for status *muhahaha*

Fine with me.  It gives those developers some visibility, and
accountability!  :-)

---

From: "Marc G. Fournier" <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 14 Apr 2004 16:39:11 -0300 (ADT)

> Fine with me.  It gives those developers some visibility, and

That's kinda of what I was thinking too ... it always makes it easier
since you've attributed the TODO list appropriately ... instead of trying
to find everyting Dave is working on, its right there ...

----

---

From: Josh Berkus <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 14 Apr 2004 12:41:20 -0700

Guys,

> remove feature list and add names of folks ...

Right now, can we take it down until we're agreed on the appropriate approach?  
Fujitsu started the sponsorhips 3 months ago, a couple days isn't going to 
make a difference in the announcement.

I'd argue that an actual press release, from Fujitsu America with quotes from 
some PG people is the most appropriate approach.   Bruce, if SRA/Fj wants me 
to handle that, I will help. 

-- 
-Josh Berkus
 Aglio Database Solutions
 San Francisco

---

From: Bruce Momjian <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 14 Apr 2004 16:42:04 -0400 (EDT)

> make a difference in the announcement.

I am just waiting for someone to add the names of the folks.  I thought
everyone wanted that.

> to handle that, I will help. 

Sure, that would be nice, but seems like more work.  :-)

---

From: Josh Berkus <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 14 Apr 2004 14:08:07 -0700

Bruce,

> I am just waiting for someone to add the names of the folks.  I thought

It's not clear what everyone wants.  That's why I want to hold it off the 
page.

> > I'd argue that an actual press release, from Fujitsu America with quotes
> > from some PG people is the most appropriate approach.   Bruce, if SRA/Fj
> > wants me to handle that, I will help.
>

It would be.   But doesn't Fujitsu want this to hit the press, not just 
Slashdot?

-- 
Josh Berkus
Aglio Database Solutions
San Francisco

---

From: Bruce Momjian <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 14 Apr 2004 17:23:06 -0400 (EDT)

> It's not clear what everyone wants.  That's why I want to hold it off the 

OK, pull the item and we can adjust it.

> It would be.   But doesn't Fujitsu want this to hit the press, not just 

I am sure they would like that, sure.