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Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2013 19:07:30 +0000
Message-ID: 
 <CA+OCxowL63aceC9wUf6GnjjzqLYCwRVPQP2hgQdWMv6nOLtpcQ@mail.gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [pgsql-pkg-debian] Re: We should not transition to
	apt.postgresql.org until we have a PPA
From: Dave Page <dpage@pgadmin.org>
To: Andres Freund <andres@2ndquadrant.com>
Cc: Bruce Momjian <bruce@momjian.us>,
	Stefan Kaltenbrunner <stefan@kaltenbrunner.cc>,
	Josh Berkus <josh@agliodbs.com>, Christoph Berg <myon@debian.org>,
	Martin Pitt <mpitt@debian.org>, Magnus Hagander <magnus@hagander.net>,
	PostgreSQL WWW <pgsql-www@postgresql.org>,
	PostgreSQL in Debian <pgsql-pkg-debian@postgresql.org>,
	Tom Lane <tgl@sss.pgh.pa.us>
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On Mon, Feb 18, 2013 at 4:12 PM, Andres Freund <andres@2ndquadrant.com> wrote:
> On 2013-02-18 09:15:59 +0000, Dave Page wrote:
>> On Sat, Feb 16, 2013 at 1:38 AM, Bruce Momjian <bruce@momjian.us> wrote:
>> >
>> > Folks, we shouldn't be requiring decoder rings here to install Postgres
>> > --- we have to do better.
>>
>> Agreed. A number of years back we did a lot of work to make it easy
>> for people to download and install PostgreSQL, through redesigns  of
>> the download pages and intentionally directing less technical users to
>> the easiest ways to get up and running with everything they need to
>> get started (the one-click installers). That was redesigned a few
>> months back to point less technical users at the RPM/DEB packages
>> instead, as it was felt that with the right wording and stabilisation
>> of the package repos that could be made as easy as the installers.
>> This is a major step backwards, and needs to be fixed ASAP.
>
> Describing any of the installer packages on debian based distros as
> easier as the .deb's imo is not really matching reality in the
> least.

Putting them first on the download list cut the regular queries about
"how do I install PostgreSQL" on the webmaster alias to zero
overnight. It was *clearly* easier for the less technical users.

> And it too often results in angry users reporting bugs because
> they didn't update.

I don't think I ever heard such a complaint.

> The instructions sure could be better, but this thread seems to be going
> *way* overboard. Just about any user installing a postgres version thats
> not provided by the distribution will have added additional repositories
> before.

Right - but it's not normally anything like so complex. See the Yum
instructions for example - and I'm not even sure they're as simple as
they could be (you could just click the link on some distros I
believe, and the package manager will offer to install the repo RPM).

I should also note that I'm *not* arguing that we should promote the
installers over the platform native packaging; I'm arguing - as one of
the few people that has had to deal with questions to webmaster@ from
people confused about installing in the past - that we should not
allow our installation instructions to become difficult or confusing
for novice users again.

-- 
Dave Page
Blog: http://pgsnake.blogspot.com
Twitter: @pgsnake

EnterpriseDB UK: http://www.enterprisedb.com
The Enterprise PostgreSQL Company


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