Received: from malur.postgresql.org ([217.196.149.56]) by arkaria.postgresql.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:256) (Exim 4.89) (envelope-from ) id 1hQV4I-00014h-7C for pgsql-www@arkaria.postgresql.org; Tue, 14 May 2019 10:53:58 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=malur.postgresql.org) by malur.postgresql.org with esmtp (Exim 4.89) (envelope-from ) id 1hQV4G-0003PJ-LU for pgsql-www@arkaria.postgresql.org; Tue, 14 May 2019 10:53:56 +0000 Received: from makus.postgresql.org ([2001:4800:3e1:1::229]) by malur.postgresql.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:256) (Exim 4.89) (envelope-from ) id 1hQV4G-0003No-5C for pgsql-www@lists.postgresql.org; Tue, 14 May 2019 10:53:56 +0000 Received: from mail-io1-xd41.google.com ([2607:f8b0:4864:20::d41]) by makus.postgresql.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:256) (Exim 4.89) (envelope-from ) id 1hQV48-00025I-El for pgsql-www@lists.postgresql.org; Tue, 14 May 2019 10:53:54 +0000 Received: by mail-io1-xd41.google.com with SMTP id x24so5192707ion.5 for ; Tue, 14 May 2019 03:53:48 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=pgadmin.org; s=google; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=ObvxpWfi3ftvur699llkwRQqL2TbgfM7wYz+l/VYZ6o=; b=pamn6J25qTjxBdCLXZr1YRvrRIeaGor3hZ1Q/LjdgIOSqogyE0IkcIZ5tEJUUOmlfP zk7H/0vAZ+NirPSGx3P3xmKF65mYXb54xL2AcZCP4E5rB3aa3T3rI9DNpa44Z0WJVIlc 84vkFtRjIF/NiEq6uwKlAuADiZAYTKw4SwYVZCU9rcwG/beEgmP65BSR+8BdDItuSj+C ORqCBshkPcQnaIEN3mW6UYtTBayirclrJOZscx6VSvu4GcENZxv+goVqbwxq4FlD4X2y 16oDKK7w16TzsYYZWg7lw5f6cFE2z/Xavc9UYOJcJNikekFBivSzZjVNV5nM+G2rUp5i rPhQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=ObvxpWfi3ftvur699llkwRQqL2TbgfM7wYz+l/VYZ6o=; b=T9YYfgAJFFchlpDR9uQjwFSvqsqcmXkPemWSM7QZFGR8lN9/4KeEfkMiGa0nYVh28C pa9C/GiW684xZnFwzmDIoVYZODTLXAhxDaqz4zrtqo9X17LMfIlpfSiKRP33KkGmWqsb XGmvBh0hW4uWgSQMhKPQrxVCCH4xw/zFK6GBnE7GoxGqzHKNWhC3uQ7NoIp3fogkx4nP Y5wwIMMCVmOW81jcOJXATAAz+HfJh+T1m1bFRLg70SV52GPqWJyKxKmYKl7XnoJISuhM Kt+HdW4rl3b9QeHUYF4zp+fe7+8iVnt8FxdhXluAGXS+HkhFfYkNW2Lp6ZB1icBABmiM w7wg== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAXWOtDC0Mavlb81Nqgubun3ZauWsflyKMa/SNTavXV0oCkhFbJb HcOdUmwdJh6EBcmuHVC+ERQF6eSRwnNPemIFu5cBoDA+eNs= X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqxAj1BynHTzgkEF4/Zx10QetK4umFn93dWrhsZ1TkJccpEXsK7TNhsHxUNgPzsUNW1d3EwMjXmv4pcVIoP20Wc= X-Received: by 2002:a6b:511a:: with SMTP id f26mr19958441iob.56.1557831227803; Tue, 14 May 2019 03:53:47 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <3f19beeb-22c1-7caa-234c-48417e95f290@postgresql.org> In-Reply-To: <3f19beeb-22c1-7caa-234c-48417e95f290@postgresql.org> From: Dave Page Date: Tue, 14 May 2019 11:53:36 +0100 Message-ID: Subject: Re: Cleaning up the Download options To: "Jonathan S. Katz" Cc: PostgreSQL WWW Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000f416530588d6d818" List-Id: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Post: List-Owner: List-Archive: Precedence: bulk --000000000000f416530588d6d818 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Hi On Sun, May 12, 2019 at 4:56 PM Jonathan S. Katz wrote: > Hi, > > On 5/8/19 11:13 AM, Dave Page wrote: > > I've just reviewed all the download options on the website. A number are > > out of date or have other issues, so I think we need to have a cleanup: > > Thanks for going through these! > > As for what I've said publicly for many years, my general feeling is > "less is more" when it comes to installers and ensuring the process of > getting PostgreSQL installed is easy for our users: we want to be able > to offer packages that support the installation mechanisms for each > environment, as long as they are maintained. For the purposes of this > exercise, I'll get off of my soapbox at that statement :) > > With that said: > > > Primary downloads: > > > > - postgresql.org packages are up to date. > > - EDB installers are up to date. > > - BigSQL installers are up to date. > > - postgres.app is up to date. > > - Fink is a release behind on 9.4 through 10, and doesn't carry 11 at > > all as far as I can tell. > > - MacPorts is up to date. > > - The Homebrew link seems to go to a download site which after many > > clicks gives me the Windows installer from EDB(!). I've fixed that now. > > The packages appear to be a release behind on all supported branches. > > > > Thoughts on whether we should make any changes to the Fink and Brew > > distributions? We used to require that the primary downloads be > > maintained on our schedule, so by rights they should be removed. > > Based on downthread comments, it sounds like we leave Brew and get rid > of Fink, though see note below. > > > > > Secondary (third party) downloads: > > > > - LiveCD - this hasn't been updated since 9.6 in December 2016. It > > should be removed. > > - 2UDA - This hasn't been updated since May 2018, and is currently > > carrying 11beta1, 10.4, 9.6.9 and 9.5.13. I think this should be removed. > > > > - TurnKey - Deploying this requires signing up to their service. I > > eventually tracked down the manifest file for their images and found > > they ship 9.4.6. This should be removed. > > If these are not being maintained, they should be removed. > > However, before we do any removals, perhaps we reach out to all of the > package maintainers to give them a chance to say "Yes we're no longer > supporting it?" > I'm inclined not to do that. My reasoning is that if we have to prod them to update builds once, we'll almost certainly have to do it again and will have to keep checking up on them. It's not like there aren't various ways people could keep up to date with our releases - and two of those third party packages are maintained by *very* active PG people. Fink is the one I might suggest giving some leeway to. Those packages are less than six months out of date, and the maintainer isn't (unlike the one for Brew and MacPorts) on the -packagers list - which I thought we considered a requirement for the "primary downloads". > > > - BitNami images are up to date. > > > > Comments etc? I'm out from EOD until Tuesday, but will review any > > comments somewhen after then, and make changes as appropriate (including > > following my own suggestions if noone disagrees with them :-p ). > > +1 to Justin's comment downthread on referencing the container packages > from DockerHub, though for the time being I'd treat it as "3rd Party > Dist." as we don't actually validate those packages in any way nor are Right. They're also not on the -packagers list. > > This gets into a larger topic that I may (read: will) broach at PGCon > (and what I feel this is leading to) is to create a design for the > Downloads page that respects & uses the hierarchy you've developed but > gives it a bit more modern feel. I've had some thoughts for how to carry > this out and looking forward to discussing more. > Bring mockups! -- Dave Page Blog: http://pgsnake.blogspot.com Twitter: @pgsnake EnterpriseDB UK: http://www.enterprisedb.com The Enterprise PostgreSQL Company --000000000000f416530588d6d818 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi

On Sun, May 12, 2019 at 4:56 PM Jonathan S. Katz &l= t;jkatz@postgresql.org> wrot= e:
Hi,

On 5/8/19 11:13 AM, Dave Page wrote:
> I've just reviewed all the download options on the website. A numb= er are
> out of date or have other issues, so I think we need to have a cleanup= :

Thanks for going through these!

As for what I've said publicly for many years, my general feeling is "less is more" when it comes to installers and ensuring the proce= ss of
getting PostgreSQL installed is easy for our users: we want to be able
to offer packages that support the installation mechanisms for each
environment, as long as they are maintained. For the purposes of this
exercise, I'll get off of my soapbox at that statement :)

With that said:

> Primary downloads:
>
> - postgresql.org <http://postgresql.org> packages are up to date= .
> - EDB installers are up to date.
> - BigSQL installers are up to date.
> - postgres.app is up to date.
> - Fink is a release behind on 9.4 through 10, and doesn't carry 11= at
> all as far as I can tell.
> - MacPorts is up to date.
> - The Homebrew link seems to go to a download site which after many > clicks gives me the Windows installer from EDB(!). I've fixed that= now.
> The packages appear to be a release behind on all supported branches.<= br> >
> Thoughts on whether we should make any changes to the Fink and Brew > distributions? We used to require that the primary downloads be
> maintained on our schedule, so by rights they should be removed.

Based on downthread comments, it sounds like we leave Brew and get rid
of Fink, though see note below.

>
> Secondary (third party) downloads:
>
> - LiveCD - this hasn't been updated since 9.6 in December 2016. It=
> should be removed.
> - 2UDA - This hasn't been updated since May 2018, and is currently=
> carrying 11beta1, 10.4, 9.6.9 and 9.5.13. I think this should be remov= ed.
>
> - TurnKey - Deploying this requires signing up to their service. I
> eventually tracked down the manifest file for their images and found > they ship 9.4.6. This should be removed.

If these are not being maintained, they should be removed.

However, before we do any removals, perhaps we reach out to all of the
package maintainers to give them a chance to say "Yes we're no lon= ger
supporting it?"

I'm inclined n= ot to do that. My reasoning is that if we have to prod them to update build= s once, we'll almost certainly have to do it again and will have to kee= p checking up on them. It's not like there aren't various ways peop= le could keep up to date with our releases - and two of those third party p= ackages are maintained by *very* active PG people.

Fink is the one I might suggest giving some leeway to. Those packages are = less than six months out of date, and the maintainer isn't (unlike the = one for Brew and MacPorts) on the -packagers list - which I thought we cons= idered a requirement for the "primary downloads".
=C2= =A0

> - BitNami images are up to date.
>
> Comments etc? I'm out from EOD until Tuesday, but will review any<= br> > comments somewhen after then, and make changes as appropriate (includi= ng
> following my own suggestions if noone disagrees with them :-p ).

+1 to Justin's comment downthread on referencing the container packages=
from DockerHub, though for the time being I'd treat it as "3rd Par= ty
Dist." as we don't actually validate those packages in any way nor= are

Right. They're also not on the -pa= ckagers list.=C2=A0

=C2=A0

This gets into a larger topic that I may (read: will) broach at PGCon
(and what I feel this is leading to) is to create a design for the
Downloads page that respects & uses the hierarchy you've developed = but
gives it a bit more modern feel. I've had some thoughts for how to carr= y
this out and looking forward to discussing more.

<= /div>
Bring mockups!=C2=A0

--
Dave Page
Blog: http://pgsnake.blogspot.com
Twitte= r: @pgsnake

EnterpriseDB UK: http://www.enterprisedb.com
The Enterprise Postgr= eSQL Company
--000000000000f416530588d6d818--