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In-Reply-To: <202111041947.x5su2sdjdx74@alvherre.pgsql>
From: Magnus Hagander <magnus@hagander.net>
Date: Thu, 4 Nov 2021 22:07:14 +0100
Message-ID: 
 <CABUevEyhYyx4DJ_7kENZry2wwZYz9R4J_oh8f0cKkUY+3Q8Kfw@mail.gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [PATCH] pgarchives: parser: handle messages in which Message-ID
 is missing
To: Alvaro Herrera <alvherre@alvh.no-ip.org>
Cc: =?UTF-8?Q?C=C3=A9lestin_Matte?= <celestin.matte@cmatte.me>,
	pgsql-www@lists.postgresql.org
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On Thu, Nov 4, 2021 at 8:47 PM Alvaro Herrera <alvherre@alvh.no-ip.org>
wrote:

> On 2021-Nov-04, C=C3=A9lestin Matte wrote:
>
> > > I don't think this should be the responsibility of pglister. As you
> > > say, "most MTAs do add this field" -- and the solution is to
> > > configure the MTA to do this. We already rely on the MTA to get a
> > > lot of other important things right.
> >
> > But then these messages will get delivered by pglister but pgarchives
> > will fail to archive them, although they do not actually break
> > requirements. Shouldn't we follow the RFC here?
>

I agree that the scenario is a problem, per below.  I don't agree that
making up an id is a solution to that problem.


Maybe pglister should refuse to deliver messages that don't contain
> a Message-Id.
>

It should. I actually thought it did already, but apparently it does not. I
guess we've only ever used it under properly configured MTAs :)

Have you actually come across any case where a *proper* non-spam message is
sent without a message-id and passes through actual mailservers on the way?

Looking through the approximately 1.4 million mails in the postgres list
archives, not a single one has a message-id generated by the archives
server MTA (which is configured to generate it). Not a single one by our
inbound relay servers. And exactly one by the pglister server -- which
turns out to be a bounce that ended up in the archives because of a
misconfiguration back in 2018 that's not visible in the public archives.

--=20
 Magnus Hagander
 Me: https://www.hagander.net/ <http://www.hagander.net/>
 Work: https://www.redpill-linpro.com/ <http://www.redpill-linpro.com/>

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<div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr"><br></div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">=
<div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Thu, Nov 4, 2021 at 8:47 PM Alvaro=
 Herrera &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:alvherre@alvh.no-ip.org" target=3D"_blank">a=
lvherre@alvh.no-ip.org</a>&gt; wrote:<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_q=
uote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,2=
04);padding-left:1ex">On 2021-Nov-04, C=C3=A9lestin Matte wrote:<br>
<br>
&gt; &gt; I don&#39;t think this should be the responsibility of pglister. =
As you<br>
&gt; &gt; say, &quot;most MTAs do add this field&quot; -- and the solution =
is to<br>
&gt; &gt; configure the MTA to do this. We already rely on the MTA to get a=
<br>
&gt; &gt; lot of other important things right.<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; But then these messages will get delivered by pglister but pgarchives<=
br>
&gt; will fail to archive them, although they do not actually break<br>
&gt; requirements. Shouldn&#39;t we follow the RFC here?<br></blockquote><d=
iv><br></div><div>I agree that the scenario is a problem, per below.=C2=A0 =
I don&#39;t agree that making up an id is a solution to that problem.<br></=
div><div><br></div><div><br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=
=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding=
-left:1ex">
Maybe pglister should refuse to deliver messages that don&#39;t contain<br>
a Message-Id.<br></blockquote><div><br></div><div>It should. I actually tho=
ught it did already, but apparently it does not. I guess we&#39;ve only eve=
r used it under properly configured MTAs :)</div><div><br></div><div>Have y=
ou actually come across any case where a *proper* non-spam message is sent =
without a message-id and passes through actual mailservers on the way?=C2=
=A0</div><div><br></div><div>Looking through the approximately 1.4 million =
mails in the postgres list archives, not a single one has a message-id gene=
rated by the archives server MTA (which is configured to generate it). Not =
a single one by our inbound relay servers. And exactly one by the pglister =
server -- which turns out to be a bounce that ended up in the archives beca=
use of a misconfiguration back in 2018 that&#39;s not visible in the public=
 archives.</div><div><br></div></div>-- <br><div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"lt=
r"><div>=C2=A0Magnus Hagander<br>=C2=A0Me: <a href=3D"http://www.hagander.n=
et/" target=3D"_blank">https://www.hagander.net/</a><br>=C2=A0Work: <a href=
=3D"http://www.redpill-linpro.com/" target=3D"_blank">https://www.redpill-l=
inpro.com/</a></div></div></div></div>

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