Received: from makus.postgresql.org (makus.postgresql.org [98.129.198.125]) by mail.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2C748930E1E for ; Fri, 3 Aug 2012 17:08:37 -0300 (ADT) Received: from mail-lpp01m010-f46.google.com ([209.85.215.46]) by makus.postgresql.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1SxOAi-0000V9-9f for pgsql-www@postgresql.org; Fri, 03 Aug 2012 20:08:36 +0000 Received: by lahd3 with SMTP id d3so587700lah.19 for ; Fri, 03 Aug 2012 13:08:18 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=google.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type:x-gm-message-state; bh=WJl70fI7ByhQoJuLC6NO7Oojui5DwgtakvZT7IuRD+k=; b=QTxra18whxPAOorfJsWYQrQB8KNTjZHUm1IfKNuKezs+gRALKmO83Rz+b3gakoQ/Hn imZcq0rhwkFcCvGqvG1F6LezTGhjGqx3vNdjm391Gu9QpehVRX4zihsuPOzeQB1A9NNT C21rmqcMaciGuIJhuc9VPRjX4HwWkOBZ55XJKv2HYF7Ddbme517PLf8fsQLK71MqUBit lc1QiGuW1SUOLsiXKJ8lO3dyHPHjZZ0deJyJafsSMM+UF9esE31HZjAya9yqPcac8wlV 23DR4LhEEvIOAAuTh8llU7g2ecI0s3PnRlbdMRhV3j000+s0nPUOKyXIh0Xy1bKi9a56 88xw== MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.152.104.77 with SMTP id gc13mr2631938lab.31.1344024498728; Fri, 03 Aug 2012 13:08:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.112.4.39 with HTTP; Fri, 3 Aug 2012 13:08:18 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: <1341781012.3451.0.camel@lenovo01-laptop03.gunduz.org> <20120709175359.GB5920@momjian.us> <20120710144721.GA31912@momjian.us> Date: Fri, 3 Aug 2012 16:08:18 -0400 Message-ID: Subject: Re: Linux Downloads page change From: Scott Mead To: Magnus Hagander Cc: Bruce Momjian , Dave Page , =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Devrim_G=DCND=DCZ?= , "pgsql-www@postgresql.org" Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=f46d04083adbd0ef9d04c66216dc X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQn8Cooh2nMSYwf4OEK565pt/06KTxbb+F/IwyvCTUYpR8o2YwpMuvaDBoxRvbzCv9tz7oQr X-Pg-Spam-Score: -2.6 (--) X-Archive-Number: 201208/2 X-Sequence-Number: 20854 --f46d04083adbd0ef9d04c66216dc Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 On Thu, Jul 12, 2012 at 3:46 PM, Scott Mead wrote: > > On Wed, Jul 11, 2012 at 8:46 AM, Magnus Hagander wrote: > >> On Tue, Jul 10, 2012 at 5:45 PM, Scott Mead wrote: >> > On Tue, Jul 10, 2012 at 10:47 AM, Bruce Momjian >> wrote: >> >> >> >> On Tue, Jul 10, 2012 at 03:39:54PM +0100, Dave Page wrote: >> >> > On Tue, Jul 10, 2012 at 3:25 PM, Scott Mead >> wrote: >> >> > > >> >> > > >> >> > > 1) A no-gui option >> >> > > The bitrock installers do have this, but at times, the >> technology >> >> > > isn't >> >> > > perfect. Many times, people want to just run a command and have it >> >> > > install. >> >> > > The idea with an RPM of these binaries is that we get the benefit >> of >> >> > > the >> >> > > same binaries across installers, AND lower the barrier to entry by >> >> > > making >> >> > > rpm -ivh ... just work. >> >> > >> >> > No technology is perfect, but we have numerous users utilising text, >> >> > silent and response file installations quite successfully, including >> >> > all the additional post-copy steps the installers undertake. We also >> >> > have an unpack mode which is much more like an RPM install in that it >> >> > just lays down the binaries. Simply put, you can just run a command >> >> > and have it install. >> >> >> >> Agreed. If the non-GUI mode of the Bitrock installers is broken, >> please >> >> report it and let's fix it. If it can't be fixed, maybe we need to use >> >> another installer, but it is not clear what is broken. Are you saying >> >> it is better for non-GUI installs because they don't need to supply a >> >> flag for non-GUI mode? Shouldn't we just document the flag better? >> > >> > >> > Sorry I'm not being clear here (I've switched timezones just yesterday >> ). >> > I'm not saying that it's broken, just that, from a 'barriers' >> perspective, >> > many customers end up building their own server-only RPM. They need >> > something that is consistent across the many disparate linux distro's >> (and >> > even just versions of the same distro) that they are running. >> > >> > Some people do it to distribute through their own repository, some just >> > don't want to stay beholden to the linux distro's themselves. Others >> just >> > need a consistent directory structure across distributions so that their >> > teams have one less thing to worry about. The community yum repository >> and >> > binaries are a great thing, and in shops where linux the distributions >> are >> > consistent and version-ing is well managed, I would recommend them every >> > time. The generic RPM option let's us fill a gap between the two; when >> it >> > comes to Small-Mid enterprise, it's very hard to stay consistent across >> all >> > distributions all the time while still making budget and timelines. The >> > generic RPM/DEB allows for that middle-ground and lowers barriers in >> > mid-sized enterprises that haven't completely gotten their head around >> all >> > the different aspects of internal distribution. >> > >> >> >> >> >> >> The smaller download does make sense --- it is a leaner install. >> >> >> >> I wonder if the OpenSCG text should more clearly state is doesn't >> >> include any GUI componients. >> > >> > >> > Patch attached. >> >> I noticed two quick things: according to the page, you provide RPMs >> for RedHat and SuSE (per the logos - I assume Fedora is included in >> the RedHat part), and DEBs for Ubuntu. >> >> Why do the patches suggest adding it to Debian (not listed) and to >> "other"? >> > > I'll update our site and get back to you. > > >> >> I also for the first time clicked one of those links. To me, the way >> that those pages request a login and registratoin to download them is >> completely unacceptable. Yes, I realize there is a "there's a download >> link at the bottom if you don't want to" (or as you like to phrase it, >> "feel anti-social", which is clearly designed to make people sign up). >> But I don't think that's acceptable for something to be listed on our >> primary download pages. I'm ok (but not with a big margin) with how >> EnterpriseDB does it - which is that they deliver your download and >> *then* suggest you register as well. (Actually, I see now that they >> have stopped doing that completely and instead throw some marketing >> and ads for their cloud product at you) >> > > Okay, we'll talk about this internally, but I'm thinking that we'll > probably kick the download off and then leave a register page up underneath. > It took a while, but we updated the downloads that are launched from: http://www.openscg.com/se/postgresql/packages.jsp Once you drill into a platform, it will launch the download, and leave the registration page up underneath. --Scott > > --Scottie > > >> >> I'd like to see that fixed for the developer bundles as well. > > -- >> Magnus Hagander >> Me: http://www.hagander.net/ >> Work: http://www.redpill-linpro.com/ >> > > --f46d04083adbd0ef9d04c66216dc Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
On Thu, Jul 12, 2012 at 3:46 PM, Scott Mead = <scottm@openscg.com> wrote:

On Wed, Jul 11, 2012 = at 8:46 AM, Magnus Hagander <magnus@hagander.net> wrote:
On Tue, Jul 10, 2012 at 5:45 PM, Scott Mead <scottm@openscg.com> wrote:
> On Tue, Jul 10, 2012 at 10:47 AM, Bruce Momjian <bruce@momjian.us> wrote:
>>
>> On Tue, Jul 10, 2012 at 03:39:54PM +0100, Dave Page wrote:
>> > On Tue, Jul 10, 2012 at 3:25 PM, Scott Mead <scottm@openscg.com> wrote= :
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > =A0 1) A no-gui option
>> > > =A0 =A0 The bitrock installers do have this, but at time= s, the technology
>> > > isn't
>> > > perfect. =A0Many times, people want to just run a comman= d and have it
>> > > install.
>> > > The idea with an RPM of these binaries is that we get th= e benefit of
>> > > the
>> > > same binaries across installers, AND lower the barrier t= o entry by
>> > > making
>> > > rpm -ivh ... just work.
>> >
>> > No technology is perfect, but we have numerous users utilisin= g text,
>> > silent and response file installations quite successfully, in= cluding
>> > all the additional post-copy steps the installers undertake. = We also
>> > have an unpack mode which is much more like an RPM install in= that it
>> > just lays down the binaries. Simply put, you can just run a c= ommand
>> > and have it install.
>>
>> Agreed. =A0If the non-GUI mode of the Bitrock installers is broken= , please
>> report it and let's fix it. =A0If it can't be fixed, maybe= we need to use
>> another installer, but it is not clear what is broken. =A0Are you = saying
>> it is better for non-GUI installs because they don't need to s= upply a
>> flag for non-GUI mode? =A0Shouldn't we just document the flag = better?
>
>
> Sorry I'm not being clear here (I've switched timezones just y= esterday ).
> I'm not saying that it's broken, just that, from a 'barrie= rs' perspective,
> many customers end up building their own server-only RPM. =A0They need=
> something that is consistent across the many disparate linux distro= 9;s (and
> even just versions of the same distro) that they are running.
>
> Some people do it to distribute through their own repository, some jus= t
> don't want to stay beholden to the linux distro's themselves. = =A0Others just
> need a consistent directory structure across distributions so that the= ir
> teams have one less thing to worry about. =A0The community yum reposit= ory and
> binaries are a great thing, and in shops where linux the distributions= are
> consistent and version-ing is well managed, I would recommend them eve= ry
> time. =A0The generic RPM option let's us fill a gap between the tw= o; when it
> comes to Small-Mid enterprise, it's very hard to stay consistent a= cross all
> distributions all the time while still making budget and timelines. = =A0The
> generic RPM/DEB allows for that middle-ground and lowers barriers in > mid-sized enterprises that haven't completely gotten their head ar= ound all
> the different aspects of internal distribution.
>
>>
>>
>> The smaller download does make sense --- it is a leaner install. >>
>> I wonder if the OpenSCG text should more clearly state is doesn= 9;t
>> include any GUI componients.
>
>
> Patch attached.

I noticed two quick things: according to the page, you provide = RPMs
for RedHat and SuSE (per the logos - I assume Fedora is included in
the RedHat part), and DEBs for Ubuntu.

Why do the patches suggest adding it to Debian (not listed) and to "ot= her"?

I'll update our site an= d get back to you.
=A0

I also for the first time clicked one of those links. To me, the way
that those pages request a login and registratoin to download them is
completely unacceptable. Yes, I realize there is a "there's a down= load
link at the bottom if you don't want to" (or as you like to phrase= it,
"feel anti-social", which is clearly designed to make people sign= up).
But I don't think that's acceptable for something to be listed on o= ur
primary download pages. I'm ok (but not with a big margin) with how
EnterpriseDB does it - which is that they deliver your download and
*then* suggest you register as well. (Actually, I see now that they
have stopped doing that completely and instead throw some marketing
and ads for their cloud product at you)

Okay= , we'll talk about this internally, but I'm thinking that we'll= probably kick the download off and then leave a register page up underneat= h.

It took a while, but we updated the downl= oads that are launched from:
http://www.openscg.com/se/postgresql/packages.jsp
Once you drill into a platform, it will launch the download, and leave = the registration page up underneath.

--Scott

=A0

--Scottie
=A0

I'd like to see that fixed for the developer bundles as well.=A0
--
=A0Magnus Hagander
=A0Me: http://www.ha= gander.net/
=A0Work: http:= //www.redpill-linpro.com/


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