Received: from makus.postgresql.org (makus.postgresql.org [98.129.198.125]) by mail.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 590E7C83CB0 for ; Tue, 10 Jul 2012 12:45:53 -0300 (ADT) Received: from mail-lb0-f174.google.com ([209.85.217.174]) by makus.postgresql.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1SocdL-0000fo-Q4 for pgsql-www@postgresql.org; Tue, 10 Jul 2012 15:45:53 +0000 Received: by lbbgm6 with SMTP id gm6so536058lbb.19 for ; Tue, 10 Jul 2012 08:45:38 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=google.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type:x-gm-message-state; bh=3E7cATP9TrdZrX4OyxVGMK3g6dKZGqQqkVNLP/XHGho=; b=XymjvpARqnabfaoNbB4lR49qpCHatYFZow1XmBrlrI/0Q3LJebCOiNs7wLeWCoZwUG 7ZIU5ozIutYALG6idEfNF8rPUU/BY3UfrCsCX8TxZfWNhV1Ft54nPg2UaE4N1n0jvK4H IT/9cqe3sA80143CNIcWpjJpD9VHH0qr8mK5z0jY0aUd3R7+jM3AejtuuGHX1I/KLlSQ m7+TW5HMmqXO3U0XQMFHBKWi0yGC14ff072I9dsz03wqIvL+ztML7K4aUT+nJq01j4gn Znl8RHOPrRL6rK2i6dpZIP8tz0rFTTA1hTZKurCiocsXWKViLRKhQ1vOyvUDoj5U4DUN 4trA== MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.152.124.180 with SMTP id mj20mr45134026lab.43.1341935137998; Tue, 10 Jul 2012 08:45:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.112.63.148 with HTTP; Tue, 10 Jul 2012 08:45:37 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <20120710144721.GA31912@momjian.us> References: <1341781012.3451.0.camel@lenovo01-laptop03.gunduz.org> <20120709175359.GB5920@momjian.us> <20120710144721.GA31912@momjian.us> Date: Tue, 10 Jul 2012 11:45:37 -0400 Message-ID: Subject: Re: Linux Downloads page change From: Scott Mead To: Bruce Momjian Cc: Dave Page , Magnus Hagander , =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Devrim_G=DCND=DCZ?= , "pgsql-www@postgresql.org" Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary=f46d0434bfde3645bb04c47b9f24 X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQlByaFjjEstr3Z0u/9ztRde9dyzmTRtYnJl3WekFq6T0P/K3ofG8RegLQaUDlYBdVCEs9xy X-Pg-Spam-Score: -2.6 (--) X-Archive-Number: 201207/76 X-Sequence-Number: 20825 --f46d0434bfde3645bb04c47b9f24 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=f46d0434bfde3645af04c47b9f22 --f46d0434bfde3645af04c47b9f22 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 On Tue, Jul 10, 2012 at 10:47 AM, Bruce Momjian wrote: > On Tue, Jul 10, 2012 at 03:39:54PM +0100, Dave Page wrote: > > On Tue, Jul 10, 2012 at 3:25 PM, Scott Mead wrote: > > > > > > > > > 1) A no-gui option > > > The bitrock installers do have this, but at times, the technology > isn't > > > perfect. Many times, people want to just run a command and have it > install. > > > The idea with an RPM of these binaries is that we get the benefit of > the > > > same binaries across installers, AND lower the barrier to entry by > making > > > rpm -ivh ... just work. > > > > No technology is perfect, but we have numerous users utilising text, > > silent and response file installations quite successfully, including > > all the additional post-copy steps the installers undertake. We also > > have an unpack mode which is much more like an RPM install in that it > > just lays down the binaries. Simply put, you can just run a command > > and have it install. > > Agreed. If the non-GUI mode of the Bitrock installers is broken, please > report it and let's fix it. If it can't be fixed, maybe we need to use > another installer, but it is not clear what is broken. Are you saying > it is better for non-GUI installs because they don't need to supply a > flag for non-GUI mode? Shouldn't we just document the flag better? > Sorry I'm not being clear here (I've switched timezones just yesterday ). I'm not saying that it's broken, just that, from a 'barriers' perspective, many customers end up building their own server-only RPM. They need something that is consistent across the many disparate linux distro's (and even just versions of the same distro) that they are running. Some people do it to distribute through their own repository, some just don't want to stay beholden to the linux distro's themselves. Others just need a consistent directory structure across distributions so that their teams have one less thing to worry about. The community yum repository and binaries are a great thing, and in shops where linux the distributions are consistent and version-ing is well managed, I would recommend them every time. The generic RPM option let's us fill a gap between the two; when it comes to Small-Mid enterprise, it's very hard to stay consistent across all distributions all the time while still making budget and timelines. The generic RPM/DEB allows for that middle-ground and lowers barriers in mid-sized enterprises that haven't completely gotten their head around all the different aspects of internal distribution. > > The smaller download does make sense --- it is a leaner install. > > I wonder if the OpenSCG text should more clearly state is doesn't > include any GUI componients. > Patch attached. > -- > Bruce Momjian http://momjian.us > EnterpriseDB http://enterprisedb.com > > + It's impossible for everything to be true. + > --f46d0434bfde3645af04c47b9f22 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
On Tue, Jul 10, 2012 at 10:47 AM, Bruce Momjian = <bruce@momjian.us> wrote:
On Tue, Jul 10, 2012 at 03:39:54PM +0100, Dave Page wrote= :
> On Tue, Jul 10, 2012 at 3:25 PM, Scott Mead <scottm@openscg.com> wrote:
> >
> >
> > =A0 1) A no-gui option
> > =A0 =A0 The bitrock installers do have this, but at times, the te= chnology isn't
> > perfect. =A0Many times, people want to just run a command and hav= e it install.
> > The idea with an RPM of these binaries is that we get the benefit= of the
> > same binaries across installers, AND lower the barrier to entry b= y making
> > rpm -ivh ... just work.
>
> No technology is perfect, but we have numerous users utilising text, > silent and response file installations quite successfully, including > all the additional post-copy steps the installers undertake. We also > have an unpack mode which is much more like an RPM install in that it<= br> > just lays down the binaries. Simply put, you can just run a command > and have it install.

Agreed. =A0If the non-GUI mode of the Bitrock installers is broken, p= lease
report it and let's fix it. =A0If it can't be fixed, maybe we need = to use
another installer, but it is not clear what is broken. =A0Are you saying it is better for non-GUI installs because they don't need to supply a flag for non-GUI mode? =A0Shouldn't we just document the flag better?

Sorry I'm not being clear here (I've switch= ed timezones just yesterday ).=A0 I'm not saying that it's broken, = just that, from a 'barriers' perspective, many customers end up bui= lding their own server-only RPM.=A0 They need something that is consistent = across the many disparate linux distro's (and even just versions of the= same distro) that they are running.=A0

Some people do it to distribute through their own repository, some just= don't want to stay beholden to the linux distro's themselves.=A0 O= thers just need a consistent directory structure across distributions so th= at their teams have one less thing to worry about.=A0 The community yum rep= ository and binaries are a great thing, and in shops where linux the distri= butions are consistent and version-ing is well managed, I would recommend t= hem every time.=A0 The generic RPM option let's us fill a gap between t= he two; when it comes to Small-Mid enterprise, it's very hard to stay c= onsistent across all distributions all the time while still making budget a= nd timelines.=A0 The generic RPM/DEB allows for that middle-ground and lowe= rs barriers in mid-sized enterprises that haven't completely gotten the= ir head around all the different aspects of internal distribution.
=A0

The smaller download does make sense --- it is a leaner install.

I wonder if the OpenSCG text should more clearly state is doesn't
include any GUI componients.

Patch attached.

--
=A0 Bruce Momjian =A0<bruce@momjian.= us> =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0h= ttp://momjian.us
=A0 EnterpriseDB =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 http://enterprisedb.com=

=A0 + It's impossible for everything to be true. +

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