Subject: launching new site

From: Robert Treat <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 6 Dec 2004 01:00:33 -0500

I'm of the opinion that we ought to launch the new site on or before the 
PostgreSQL 8.0 release in whatever shape it is in.  I know a lot of people 
would like to see several parts of the content updated before launch, but 
I've sort of come to the conclusion that if we just reuse the existing 
content, we're not making things any worse, and then people can get a hold of 
the improvements we do have that much sooner.  To that end, I also think we 
ought to switch to Omar's design as is.  No one seems to have the gumption to 
kick around lukaczs design in regards to issues that were raised earlier, 
while we have certainly have a least one person (Omar) working steadily with 
that design.  What I would like to see is an application of Omar's latest 
work (I believe Omar and/or Gavin will have a patch available soon) so that 
we can put that up on wwwmaster and have people do some beta testing of it.  
I'm currently working on an update of the TODO list with a more definitive 
list of things that need to be done, which I should have ready tommorrow, but 
if we keep pushing forward I think we can get this thing out the door along 
with 8.0.  Any objections?

-- 
Robert Treat
Build A Brighter Lamp :: Linux Apache {middleware} PostgreSQL

---

From: Gavin Sherry <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 6 Dec 2004 17:28:05 +1100 (EST)

> with 8.0.  Any objections?

You can access Omar's latest code using subversion:

svn co http://postgresql.tinysofa.com/svn/trunk

Because of the images additions/changes  which don't lend themselves to diff -c
format, I recommend allowing Omar to check in the changes directly to CVS
on gborg. I don't see any problems with that approach, because it can
always be rolled back. Omar tells me that he is already registered, with
username 'omar'.

I'd assist but I will be in Japan with limited internet access.

Thoughts?

Gavin

---

From: Alexey Borzov <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 06 Dec 2004 11:04:35 +0300

Hi,

Robert Treat wrote:
> the improvements we do have that much sooner.  

Agree here.

> To that end, I also think we 

That's a nice way to convince people: "either you take our design as is or you 
don't get any content updates".

Another question is: should I move to Australia before I'll be able to continue 
participating in new website development?

Please note, that doesn't mean I don't like the new design, it is definitely 
good. I just don't quite like the way its development is going.

---

From: Robert Treat <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 6 Dec 2004 08:32:20 -0500

On Monday 06 December 2004 03:04, Alexey Borzov wrote:
> > ought to switch to Omar's design as is.  No one seems to have the
> > gumption to kick around lukaczs design in regards to issues that were
> > raised earlier, while we have certainly have a least one person (Omar)
> > working steadily with that design.  What I would like to see is an
> > application of Omar's latest work (I believe Omar and/or Gavin will have
> > a patch available soon) so that we can put that up on wwwmaster and have
> > people do some beta testing of it.
>
> That's a nice way to convince people: "either you take our design as is or
> you don't get any content updates".
>

Not at all.  We have already recieved some content updates from Omar, and we 
have all of Omar's current code from his SVN repository. If someone wants to 
take his content changes and fit them in to the current design, we can do 
that.  I don't, since I know there are issues with the current design 
regarding sub-navigation that I don't want to deal with (and apparently no 
one else does either) given that those issues go away with Omar's design. 

> Another question is: should I move to Australia before I'll be able to
> continue participating in new website development?
>

I'm not sure I understand the above, but FWIW I've always wanted to move to 
Australia if people are putting relocation packages together ;-)

> Please note, that doesn't mean I don't like the new design, it is
> definitely good. I just don't quite like the way its development is going.

I'm scared to ask for specifics :-)

---

From: Robert Bernier <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 6 Dec 2004 08:37:17 -0500

On December 6, 2004 03:04 am, Alexey Borzov wrote:
> > PostgreSQL 8.0 release in whatever shape it is in.  I know a lot of
> > people would like to see several parts of the content updated before
> > launch, but I've sort of come to the conclusion that if we just reuse the
> > existing content, we're not making things any worse, and then people can
> > get a hold of the improvements we do have that much sooner.
>
> Agree here.
>

get it out the door

---

From: Justin Clift <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 07 Dec 2004 01:08:34 +1100

Robert Bernier wrote:
>>>PostgreSQL 8.0 release in whatever shape it is in.
<snip>
> get it out the door

Agreed here as well.

Regards and best wishes,

Justin Clift

---

From: Josh Berkus <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 6 Dec 2004 09:31:42 -0800

Robert,

> PostgreSQL 8.0 release in whatever shape it is in.  

I don't think you need to ask my opinion on this.  ;-)

Please identify for me any areas where you can use additional text content on 
the TODO.  I'm going to be pretty useless on marking stuff up, but I can 
still write.

> definitely good. I just don't quite like the way its development is going.

Alexey, you're *never* happy.

-- 
Josh Berkus
Aglio Database Solutions
San Francisco

---

From: Alexey Borzov <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 06 Dec 2004 22:58:47 +0300

Hi,

> Alexey, you're *never* happy.

You just don't know me long enough. ;

In fact I promise to be extremely happy when the new site is finally online.

---

From: Alexey Borzov <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 06 Dec 2004 23:10:30 +0300

Hi,

Robert Treat wrote:
> that. 

Yes, and given the history of web team's enthusiasm for such tasks I'd guess 
that no one will ever do that.

So we have a de-facto design which was not "accepted" by the vote.

> I don't, since I know there are issues with the current design 

OK, where are these issues documented? We have an issue tracker @ gborg:
http://gborg.postgresql.org/project/pgweb/task/tasklist.php
and we have a todo page on dev. version of site:
http://wwwmaster.postgresql.org/todo

> Australia if people are putting relocation packages together ;-)

I meant that some effort was put into making the website development more open 
to the public. But right now we are having a closed development process again, 
only that was closed by a different group of people. Where is the discussion 
going? What is the current todo list?

---

From: "Joshua D. Drake" <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 06 Dec 2004 12:41:43 -0800

> Agreed here as well.

Agreed, lets get it up.

> 
> Regards and best wishes,
> 
> Justin Clift
> 
> ---------------------------(end of broadcast)---------------------------
> TIP 5: Have you checked our extensive FAQ?
> 
>               http://www.postgresql.org/docs/faqs/FAQ.html

-- 
Command Prompt, Inc., home of PostgreSQL Replication, and plPHP.
Postgresql support, programming shared hosting and dedicated hosting.
+1-503-667-4564 - [email-masked] - http://www.commandprompt.com
Mammoth PostgreSQL Replicator. Integrated Replication for PostgreSQL

---

From: Robert Treat <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 6 Dec 2004 16:00:46 -0500

On Monday 06 December 2004 15:10, Alexey Borzov wrote:
> Robert Treat wrote:
> >>That's a nice way to convince people: "either you take our design as is
> >> or you don't get any content updates".
> >
> > Not at all.  We have already recieved some content updates from Omar, and
> > we have all of Omar's current code from his SVN repository. If someone
> > wants to take his content changes and fit them in to the current design,
> > we can do that.
>
> Yes, and given the history of web team's enthusiasm for such tasks I'd
> guess that no one will ever do that.
>

Well, we can have an official vote if you'd like.  IMHO not everything needs 
an official vote. In most cases discussion will lead to a consensus. 

> > regarding sub-navigation that I don't want to deal with (and apparently
> > no one else does either) given that those issues go away with Omar's
> > design.
>

see this lists's archives.  The main things centered around having left nav 
and dropping right nav in sub pages. 

> > I'm not sure I understand the above, but FWIW I've always wanted to move
> > to Australia if people are putting relocation packages together ;-)
>
> I meant that some effort was put into making the website development more
> open to the public. But right now we are having a closed development
> process again, only that was closed by a different group of people. Where
> is the discussion going? What is the current todo list?

I'm not following you.  Discussion takes place here on the list.  Granted 
there may be the occasional conversation between two people on private email 
or irc, but nothing is committed before it is brought up here. (At least I 
don't commit anything without bringing it up here)  The todo list is still 
valid, just a little behind the times, I hope to update that tonight, but it 
won't be earth shattering, just adding things like "Content for section XYZ 
is missing" and it's ilk.