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Katz" , Dave Page , "pgsql-www@postgresql.org" Subject: RE: Add AIX on the PostgreSQL Download page Thread-Topic: Add AIX on the PostgreSQL Download page Thread-Index: AQHXo72R7c7MTIWR+kWBqU1cu64B0auYoVtigAAIY4CAAALWAIAAFMiAgAAZUYCAAADwgIAAG+kAgAAInQCAAACuAIAACoYAgAD9x1eAFC274g== Date: Tue, 21 Sep 2021 08:04:15 +0000 Message-ID: References: <7DE7DFFE-0F63-4E10-9F58-AF0538AEEB54@yesql.se> <352d5e7a-813d-c382-6ed6-8c90a32d8395@postgresql.org> <22028473-28CE-4D1B-92F4-6A2FEF566FD6@yesql.se> <09DEE5C1-606F-43D0-8A60-4A554BED565B@thebuild.com> <6629C1B6-41A0-4DCC-BBA4-9404C6525659@thebuild.com> <9A07CB77-3842-4005-9820-3A14540FD7EA@yesql.se> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: fr-FR, en-US Content-Language: fr-FR X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: msip_labels: MSIP_Label_e463cba9-5f6c-478d-9329-7b2295e4e8ed_Enabled=True;MSIP_Label_e463cba9-5f6c-478d-9329-7b2295e4e8ed_SiteId=33440fc6-b7c7-412c-bb73-0e70b0198d5a;MSIP_Label_e463cba9-5f6c-478d-9329-7b2295e4e8ed_SetDate=2021-09-21T08:04:14.547Z;MSIP_Label_e463cba9-5f6c-478d-9329-7b2295e4e8ed_Name=Atos For Internal Use - All Employees;MSIP_Label_e463cba9-5f6c-478d-9329-7b2295e4e8ed_ContentBits=0;MSIP_Label_e463cba9-5f6c-478d-9329-7b2295e4e8ed_Method=Standard; 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Thx Tony ________________________________ De : REIX, Tony Envoy=E9 : mercredi 8 septembre 2021 14:38 =C0 : Daniel Gustafsson ; Magnus Hagander Cc : Christophe Pettus ; Jonathan S. Katz ; Dave Page ; pgsql-www@postgresql.org Objet : RE: Add AIX on the PostgreSQL Download page Hello, It looks that you are still discussing for finding the most appropriate sol= ution, from: building and delivering within PostgreSQL community infrastructure to: simply providing a link to a place out of PostgreSQL community in= fratructure for downloading the executables. Let me know when you have finalized your decision. If your final decision is to simply provide a link to a place out of Postgr= eSQL community where companies using AIX can find and download RPMs for AIX= , we could add a new page on BullFreeware where only PostgreSQL packages ca= n be downloaded. That would need some development to be done on our side. A= lso, we plan to provide DNF in 2022, in order to make installing new softwa= re much simpler that downloading by hand as for now. The ATOS/Bull BullFreeware web-site does obey the RGBD (=AB General Data Pr= otection Regulation =BB : GDPR), and thus we do not record any detailed inf= ormation about people connecting to our web-site, and there is no advertise= ments or links to the ATOS world or to the Escala products. If your final decision is to build PostgreSQL binaries by your own and to m= ake them available in your infrastructure, we may help you. First, since ATOS sells IBM AIX machines (under Escala brand) since ages, w= e are working around AIX in cooperation with IBM (for 30 years in 2022). An= d, if you need more AIX/Power hardware, our IBM partner is studying the pos= sibility to provide you with some Power HW. Moreover, if you need some help for building PostgreSQL binary deliverables= in your own environment, we may help you, whenever possible. There are sev= eral AIX VMs in your build farm, using GCC 8.3 or XLC. We use only GCC v8.4= for now, and we plan to move to GCC v10 next year since it includes many f= ixes and improvements we are working on. However, though building/installin= g/checking are required for delivering binaries, some other rules are requi= red. Like: the /opt/freeware directory is the fundamental place where insta= lling OpenSource packages on AIX. Plus respect some few fundamental rules s= pecific to AIX (see after). Just some information if you do not know the AIX world: the native format f= or delivering and managing packages on AIX is the LPP format, which is AIX-= specific. About OpenSource products, we (ATOS/Bullfreeware and IBM/AIX-Tool= box) build them with the RPM tool and we deliver them as RPM files. Thus, l= ike Fedora does, we manage src.rpm files (.spec file, .patch files) for bui= lding packages delivered as: postgresql-......aix7.1.ppc.rpm files. Our RPM= .spec files are very close to the Fedora ones, but they include many AIX-s= pecific stuff needed for providing a coherent set of libraries plus some st= uff required by AIX (like: shared libraries are provided as lib*.a containi= ng lib*.so files for both 32 and 64bit). So, building PostgreSQL binaries by the PostgreSQL community infrastructure= could be done in different ways, like using our .src.rpm code (which we pl= an to improve for version v14, and which requires some other OpenSource RPM= s dependencies to be installed for building and then running, like Fedora d= oes) or simply as a tar.gz . Regards/Cordialement, Tony Reix tony.reix@atos.net ATOS / Bull SAS ATOS Expert IBM-Bull Cooperation Project: Architect & OpenSource Technical Leader 1, rue de Provence - 38432 ECHIROLLES - FRANCE www.atos.net ________________________________ De : Daniel Gustafsson Envoy=E9 : mardi 7 septembre 2021 22:46 =C0 : Magnus Hagander Cc : Christophe Pettus ; Jonathan S. Katz ; Dave Page ; REIX, Tony ; pg= sql-www@postgresql.org Objet : Re: Add AIX on the PostgreSQL Download page Caution! External email. Do not open attachments or click links, unless thi= s email comes from a known sender and you know the content is safe. > On 7 Sep 2021, at 22:08, Magnus Hagander wrote: > On Tue, Sep 7, 2021 at 10:07 PM Christophe Pettus wrot= e: >>> On Sep 7, 2021, at 12:35, Magnus Hagander wrote: >>> But we also need to make sure we don't end up being a link factory for >>> companies or organisations who just want to get clicks, and do so by >>> hosting an installer. >> >> It's a bit of a balancing act, because one of the ways a commercial orga= nization can justify the (non-trivial) cost of preparing packages or an ins= taller is that it is a good marketing tool. At the minimum, we should requ= ire that the installer be downlaodable without any registration or informat= ion collection. > > Certainly, and I'm fine with that. I mean what we want to avoid is > having 5 different links for each platform going to differen companies > who're doing that as a way to drive traffic only. I don=92t think there is a huge risk in any company making the investment i= nto packaging and/or writing and maintaining an up-to-date installer purely for traffic, that would be very expensive traffic. If they do make a high-qual= ity installer that people like and anyone can use for free without registration= (I would expect us to have such reqs in place for linking) only to get the traffic, then that=92s not necessarily bad for the community is it? -- Daniel Gustafsson https://eur01.safelinks.protection.outlook.= com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fvmware.com%2F&data=3D04%7C01%7Ctony.reix%40ato= s.net%7C9248b5c3eb794eaed4f108d972409bde%7C33440fc6b7c7412cbb730e70b0198d5a= %7C0%7C0%7C637666444084949039%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiL= CJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=3DU8uEjRtl%2= B5XFNNFlLKqGx6SdKQj%2B%2Fq%2FZXCGcROdTTmg%3D&reserved=3D0 --_000_PR3PR02MB6396AF6A3B7B89957189449486A19PR3PR02MB6396eurp_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hello,

Any news about this subject?

Thx

Tony
De : REIX, Tony <tony.re= ix@atos.net>
Envoy=E9 : mercredi 8 septembre 2021 14:38
=C0 : Daniel Gustafsson <daniel@yesql.se>; Magnus Hagander <= ;magnus@hagander.net>
Cc : Christophe Pettus <xof@thebuild.com>; Jonathan S. Ka= tz <jkatz@postgresql.org>; Dave Page <dpage@pgadmin.org>; pgsql= -www@postgresql.org <pgsql-www@postgresql.org>
Objet : RE: Add AIX on the PostgreSQL Download page
 
Hello,

It looks that you are still discussing for finding the most appropriate sol= ution,
 from: building and delivering within PostgreSQL community infrastruct= ure
      to: simply providing a link to a place out of PostgreS= QL community infratructure for downloading the executables.
Let me know when you have finalized your decision.

If your final decision is to simply provide a link to a place out of PostgreSQL community where companies using AIX can find = and download RPMs for AIX, we could add a new page on BullFreeware where on= ly PostgreSQL packages can be downloaded. That would need some development = to be done on our side. Also, we plan to provide DNF in 2022, in order to make installing new software much simp= ler that downloading by hand as for now.
The ATOS/Bull BullFreeware web-site does obey the RG= BD (=AB General Data Protection Regulation =BB : GDPR), and thus we do not record = any detailed information about people connecting to our web-site, and there= is no advertisements or links to the ATOS world or to the Escala products.=

If your final decision is to build PostgreSQL binaries by your own and to m= ake them available in your infrastructure, we may help you.
First, since ATOS sells IBM AIX machines (under Escala brand) since ages, w= e are working around AIX in cooperation with IBM (for 30 years in 2022). And, if you need more AIX/Power hardware, o= ur IBM partner is studying the possibility to provide you with some Power H= W.
Moreover, if you need some help for building PostgreSQL binary deliverables= in your own environment, we may help you, whenever possible. There are sev= eral AIX VMs in your build farm, using GCC 8.3 or XLC. We use only GCC v8.4= for now, and we plan to move to GCC v10 next year since it includes many fixes and improvements we are wor= king on. However, though building/installing/checking are required for deli= vering binaries, some other rules are required. Like: the /opt/freeware dir= ectory is the fundamental place where installing OpenSource packages on AIX. Plus respect some few fundame= ntal rules specific to AIX (see after).

Just some information if you do not know the AIX world: the= native format for delivering and managing packages on AIX is the LPP forma= t, which is AIX-specific. About OpenSource products, we (ATOS/Bullfreeware and IBM/AIX-Toolbox) build them with the R= PM tool and we deliver them as RPM files. Thus, like Fedora does, we manage= src.rpm files (.spec file, .patch files) for building packages delivered a= s: postgresql-......aix7.1.ppc.rpm files. Our RPM .spec files are very close to the Fedora ones, but they inc= lude many AIX-specific stuff needed for providing a coherent set of librari= es plus some stuff required by AIX (like: shared libraries are provided as = lib*.a containing lib*.so files for both 32 and 64bit).
So, building PostgreSQL binaries by the PostgreSQL community infrastructure= could be done in different ways, like using our .src.rpm code (which we pl= an to improve for version v14, and which requires some other OpenSource RPM= s dependencies to be installed for building and then running, like Fedora does) or simply as a tar.gz .


Regards= /Cordialement,

Tony Reix

tony.reix@atos.net

ATOS / Bull SAS
ATOS Expert
IBM-Bull Cooperation Project: Architect & OpenSource Technical Lea= der
1, rue = de Provence - 38432 ECHIROLLES - FRANCE

De : Daniel Gustafsson &l= t;daniel@yesql.se>
Envoy=E9 : mardi 7 septembre 2021 22:46
=C0 : Magnus Hagander <magnus@hagander.net>
Cc : Christophe Pettus <xof@thebuild.com>; Jonathan S. Ka= tz <jkatz@postgresql.org>; Dave Page <dpage@pgadmin.org>; REIX,= Tony <tony.reix@atos.net>; pgsql-www@postgresql.org <pgsql-www@po= stgresql.org>
Objet : Re: Add AIX on the PostgreSQL Download page
 
Caution! External email. Do not open attachments= or click links, unless this email comes from a known sender and you know t= he content is safe.

> On 7 Sep 2021, at 22:08, Magnus Hagander <magnus@hagander.net> w= rote:
> On Tue, Sep 7, 2021 at 10:07 PM Christophe Pettus <xof@thebuild.com= > wrote:
>>> On Sep 7, 2021, at 12:35, Magnus Hagander <magnus@hagander.= net> wrote:

>>> But we also need to make sure we don't end up being a link fac= tory for
>>> companies or organisations who just want to get clicks, and do= so by
>>> hosting an installer.
>>
>> It's a bit of a balancing act, because one of the ways a commercia= l organization can justify the (non-trivial) cost of preparing packages or = an installer is that it is a good marketing tool.  At the minimum, we = should require that the installer be downlaodable without any registration or information collection.
>
> Certainly, and I'm fine with that. I mean what we want to avoid is
> having 5 different links for each platform going to differen companies=
> who're doing that as a way to drive traffic only.

I don=92t think there is a huge risk in any company making the investment i= nto
packaging and/or writing and maintaining an up-to-date installer purely for=
traffic, that would be very expensive traffic.  If they do make a high= -quality
installer that people like and anyone can use for free without registration= (I
would expect us to have such reqs in place for linking) only to get the
traffic, then that=92s not necessarily bad for the community is it?

--
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