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Message-ID: <cd30ef8c0803100541s1ce440d6ia2fd4471e05a4a74@mail.gmail.com>
Date: Mon, 10 Mar 2008 14:41:15 +0200
From: "Adrian Maier" <adrian.maier@gmail.com>
To: "Guillaume Lelarge" <guillaume@lelarge.info>
Subject: Re: PostgreSQL website translations
Cc: "PostgreSQL www" <pgsql-www@postgresql.org>
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References: <cd30ef8c0803030453t799a5a4bxd2a70e49a53f2b8@mail.gmail.com>
	<47D3965B.9060907@lelarge.info> <47D3C345.6020206@hagander.net>
	<cd30ef8c0803100232t355f4605g7b6262840b86526d@mail.gmail.com>
	<20080310094928.GH30980@svr2.hagander.net>
	<cd30ef8c0803100353lec202e7o85d4786b18301a34@mail.gmail.com>
	<47D517C4.3000508@lelarge.info>

On Mon, Mar 10, 2008 at 1:13 PM, Guillaume Lelarge
<guillaume@lelarge.info> wrote:
> Adrian Maier a =E9crit :
>
> > On Mon, Mar 10, 2008 at 11:49 AM, Magnus Hagander <magnus@hagander.net>=
 wrote:
>  >> On Mon, Mar 10, 2008 at 11:32:28AM +0200, Adrian Maier wrote:
>  >>  > On Sun, Mar 9, 2008 at 1:00 PM, Magnus Hagander <magnus@hagander.n=
et> wrote:
>  >>[...]
>
> >>  > Perhaps it would be useful to have the things that need to be fixed
>  >>  > added on Trac ?
>  >>
>  >>  That's a very good idea. First we just have to agree on what they ar=
e :-)
>  >>
>  >>  I think one big question that we never did solve the last time is wh=
at to
>  >>  do with pages that are out-of-date. E.g. when the english version of=
 a page
>  >>  is updated, and the translated one isn't, what do we do with it... S=
how it
>  >>  anyway, remove it, somehow indicate it... Once we've decided what we=
 want
>  >>  to do about it, then we can start debating how to do it (which is wh=
ere the
>  >>  point of cvs/svn etc comes back in), and start adding tickets for th=
em.
>  >
>  > When an English page is modified we could :
>  > - immediately send a notice to the translators.  Automatically added T=
rac
>  > tickets seem to be a cool idea if it's possible.
>  > - keep displaying the old translated page for 4-5 days
>
>  Nope. If a page is modified, it should just display the english one.
>
>
>  > - if the translation is not yet ready we could invalidate the
>  > page : move it somewhere else and start displaying the
>  > English page until the translation is ready.
>  > Or, instead of moving away the page we could add an
>  > "outdated page since yyyy-mm-dd" warning .
>  >
>
>  I don't think we need to move the obsolete translated webpage. The PHP
>  code should simply display the english one.

Ok , that's fine with me : the English page replaces the translated page
until the translator updates it.


>  > Either way , I think that it would be better to give the translators
>  > a few days to do the update before hiding or marking the page.
>  >
>
>  Nope. There's no reason to do this. If the english page fixes an error
>  (content, not grammar or things like this), I prefer to have the fixed
>  english one rather than the translated but wrong one.
>
>
>  > But first of all,  we'll need a good way to store the last_modificatio=
n_date
>  > for each page : each page (English and translations alike) need to
>  > be "stamped"  with a date or date+time .   The date of the svn
>  > revision is not good enough because relying on it is the perfect
>  > recipe for missing modifications if they are occuring before the
>  > translators finishes the translation of a previous version.
>  >
>  > Here is a scenario :
>  > - 8-apr: the English page is modified+committed
>  > - 8-apr: the translator starts translating
>  > - 9-apr: the English page is modified+committed again
>  > - 10-apr: the translation gets committed (but it has the contents for =
8-apr)
>  >
>
>  Oh OK. I understand your example. But if we can't rely on a svn hook to
>  stamp each file, I also don't think we can rely on a manual
>  modification, do we ?

The core of the problem is finding a good place to store the
correspondance between a given page and its translations.

My point is that we need a way to store information like
"ro/about/advantages.html rev5001 (10-apr-2008) is the translation of
en/about/advantages.html rev4995 (8-apr-2008) " .

It's excellent if this can be achieved with svn hooks , but I doubt that
it's possible.


>  > So,  I think that we'll need to build some mechanisms for dealing
>  > with the page versions/trabslations outside of what does svn offer.
>
>  Do you have any ideas of what this could be ?


I'm dreaming of having "something" (some scripts or maybe
or even a web application for translators)  that gives:
- the list of pages that need to be modified or that are new
- for each listed file :
      *  the diff between the "English text that was translated last time
into my language" and "the current English text"
      *  the ability to download the latest translated text
      *  the ability to upload the updated translated text


>  There's another issue that we'll need to answer : localised search. If I
>  remember well Magnus's talk at FOSDEM, the search on www.postgresql.org
>  relies on an english only dictionnary. How will french, romanian or
>  spanish pages affect the current search feature ?

I can't comment on this (not qualified ... ) .


Cheers,
Adrian Maier