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help / color / mirror / Atom feedFrom: Achilleas Mantzios - cloud <a.mantzios@cloud.gatewaynet.com>
To: pgsql-admin@lists.postgresql.org
Subject: People obsessed with docker - how can I help?
Date: Mon, 10 Mar 2025 09:28:49 +0200
Message-ID: <eca99e63-3d47-4691-9da4-650040b302e2@cloud.gatewaynet.com> (raw)
Dear Friends
Recently I started helping some friends with their postgresql systems.
They run production on XLD, then some dev environment on OS level, and
docker in others. And they seem dead sure docker is the way to go both
for the db and app, both in dev/staging and in production.
I am trying to convince those people that docker may be fine for their
app distribution (java - tomacat), or dev setup, although I have seen
cases that someone needs to mess around with java threads from within
the OS, or make persistent changes to java app config from the app or
the admin interface, but for postgresql it will be a headache if they
want to do any serious tasks with their DB later, new extensions, custom
C functions, pg_upgrade, etc.
They use postgresql docker image, like I would use e.g. a sqlite or even
mysql package in a use once, then throw away fashion. Of course this is
just me and today MySQL is far from the toy it used to be in 2000, just
trying to give you the idea. They don't want to deal with the DB, want
to see it as a black box doing some boring DB stuff and then forget
about it.
I explained to them that multi-Billion companies might deploy kubernetes
for postgresql achieving many 9's of high availability but those are
very serious installations running with some well supported kubernetes
operator that they can rely and depend upon , they need to respect their
architecture in their future designs, and also shape the app accordingly.
So we see the oxymoron already : people fanatical with running
postgresql on docker are those who dont know how to do a proper
installation by hand, while on the other end of the spectrum companies
running postgresql on docker/kubernetes are those who already have a
vast experience running vanilla or compiled or 3rd party postgreql on
the OS, and want to take HA a step further , providing a fully automated
environment ( perhaps with Patroni and the rest of ecosystem).
So effectively, one can gather that those who should run postgresql on
docker are the exact opposite of the kind of people who actually attempt
to run it without much thought.
Plus another problem spotted by some ppl in the field :
https://pigsty.io/blog/db/pg-in-docker/
"a team’s intellect relies on the few seasoned members and their
communication overhead. Database issues require database experts;
container issues, container experts. However, when databases are
deployed on kubernetes & dockers, merging the expertise of database and
K8S specialists is challenging — you need a dual-expert to resolve
issues, and such individuals are rarer than specialists in one domain.
Moreover, one man’s meat is another man’s poison. Certain Docker
features might turn into bugs under specific conditions."
While the DB is still as big as some GBs of data, I find it strange not
being able to install whatever extension I find suitable and also
strange to wait half an hour for an upgrade which should take seconds.
If someone wanted to have a persistent extension system he/she should
also persist /usr/local/pgsql/share besides $PGDATA . And would have to
play around with https://github.com/tianon/docker-postgres-upgrade to
get a proper binary upgrade.
What are your thoughts ? I am puzzled because while I used to hear many
skeptical opinions until some years ago, now the trend seems to more on
the "acceptance" or neutral side.
view thread (9+ messages) latest in thread
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Subject: Re: People obsessed with docker - how can I help?
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