From: Tom Lane <tgl@sss.pgh.pa.us>
To: Vik Fearing <vik@postgresfriends.org>
Cc: Kamil Monicz <kamil@monicz.dev>
Cc: pgsql-bugs@lists.postgresql.org, Peter Eisentraut <peter@eisentraut.org>
Subject: Re: BUG #19106: Potential regression with CTE materialization planning in Postgres 18
Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2025 15:27:59 -0500
Message-ID: <2226630.1762892879@sss.pgh.pa.us> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <f2171b06-8970-4946-9092-72b4668c58e4@postgresfriends.org>
References: <19106-9dd3668a0734cd72@postgresql.org>
<1650412.1762703636@sss.pgh.pa.us>
<b23b48b7-0222-4b5e-a986-1d79920a7298@app.fastmail.com>
<1886977.1762794560@sss.pgh.pa.us>
<1980046.1762808758@sss.pgh.pa.us>
<36c1f631-f65f-4bb8-90af-9fafdb683547@postgresfriends.org>
<2184532.1762874669@sss.pgh.pa.us>
<f2171b06-8970-4946-9092-72b4668c58e4@postgresfriends.org>
Vik Fearing <vik@postgresfriends.org> writes:
> I had a rummage through the archives but couldn't easily find the paper
> introducing aggregates so I can't see what the justification for that
> rule was. This language was not in 1989 but is in 1992. It may just be a
> case of "this is what we've implemented so this is what we are specifying."
Thanks for doing that research. It's not at all surprising if back
in the early 90's nobody had tried to make it work for sub-selects
(or at least had not succeeded), so they just wrote the spec to not
require it.
After sleeping on it I feel that my proposal of "force the aggregate
to have agglevelsup = 0" is a reasonably sane solution. I'd
originally sought some minimal adjustment to the
make-CTE-refs-work-like-Vars approach of b0cc0a71e, like moving the
aggregate down one level if we detect that the CTE reference is to a
sibling CTE. However, that wouldn't be sufficient to deal with
nested WITHs, for example
WITH a AS (
SELECT id FROM (VALUES (1), (2)) AS v(id)
),
b AS (
WITH b1 AS ( SELECT max((SELECT sum(id) FROM a)) AS agg )
SELECT * FROM b1
)
SELECT agg FROM b;
"Move down one level" would assign the max() to the
"WITH b1 ... SELECT * FROM b1" level, so we still have the bug.
"Move down through all levels of WITH" might do the trick,
or it might not. In any case it's feeling arbitrary and rather
far away from what we do for Vars. So I feel like the analogy
to Vars was fatally flawed to start with.
However, the real reason why I'm feeling good about the simplistic
solution is: if we invent some more-complex rule, whose life are
we making better? I think the submitted problem query is an example
of a common SQL programming idiom, which is to use a series of WITH
CTEs to chop up a complex computation into small independent black
boxes. It's the exact opposite of independence if the positioning of
a CTE reference in a later CTE affects the semantics of aggregates in
that CTE. Now, I fear we can't solve the problem that b0cc0a71e
set out to solve without having some impact of that sort, but we
should keep it as minimal and surprise-free as possible. Forcing
affected aggregates to have their semantic level equal to their
syntactic level seems about as surprise-free as we can get.
Especially since that would have been the result we produced before
b0cc0a71e in all non-contrived cases. The bug report that induced
us to do b0cc0a71e was a pretty contrived case if you ask me:
why would you combine an outer Var reference with a select from
a CTE? And if you did, why would you expect the surrounding
aggregate to be considered non-local?
regards, tom lane
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To: pgsql-bugs@postgresql.org
Cc: tgl@sss.pgh.pa.us, vik@postgresfriends.org, kamil@monicz.dev, peter@eisentraut.org
Subject: Re: BUG #19106: Potential regression with CTE materialization planning in Postgres 18
In-Reply-To: <2226630.1762892879@sss.pgh.pa.us>
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