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* Re: Installation instructions vs binaries
@ 2020-09-08 13:52 Magnus Hagander <magnus@hagander.net>
2020-09-08 14:06 ` Re: Installation instructions vs binaries Tom Lane <tgl@sss.pgh.pa.us>
0 siblings, 1 reply; 13+ messages in thread
From: Magnus Hagander @ 2020-09-08 13:52 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: David G. Johnston <david.g.johnston@gmail.com>; +Cc: Pg Docs <pgsql-docs@lists.postgresql.org>
On Thu, Jul 16, 2020 at 6:25 PM David G. Johnston <
david.g.johnston@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Wed, Jul 15, 2020 at 4:13 AM Magnus Hagander <magnus@hagander.net>
> wrote:
>
>> It's kind of strange that if you start your PostgreSQL journey by reading
>> our instructions, you get nothing useful about installing PostgreSQL from
>> binary packages other than "go ask somebody else about it". Yet we have
>> pretty good step by step instructions on our *website* for it.
>>
>> Attached patch adds a chapter to the docs about installing from binaries,
>> and refers those users to the website download instructions (and updates
>> the Windows instructions to include an actual link to the website).
>>
>> It also adds mention of it in a few other places - -there are probably
>> more that could use some help with that in the future. But I've seen a lot
>> of people get confused by our documentation assuming everything is from
>> source when it comes to initdb and pg_ctl that I think it's worth specially
>> mentioning it there.
>>
>
Dang, I forgot to add this to the cf page, so I forgot about it myself :)
Thanks. Adding tips calling out common package-specific/handled pieces
> seems ok.
>
> One typo for the patch as-is:
>
> + When PostgreSQL is installed using binary packages, starting and
> stopping
> + of the system is normally integrated with the service management on
> the
> + platform. Refer to the documentation for the documentation for these
> + packages and the platform for more information.
>
> Remove "for the documentation"
>
Hah, yeah, that's cute.
However, maybe we should avoid repeated use of the passive "When PostgreSQL
> is installed using binary packages". Consider just: "PostgreSQL binary
> packages". e.g.,
>
> PostgreSQL binary packages normally include platform-appropriate service
> management (starting and stopping). Consult the package documentation for
> more information.
>
> (the other two can be rewording similarly if this is deemed better - all
> three should be consistent).
>
Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. How about like this?
--
Magnus Hagander
Me: https://www.hagander.net/ <http://www.hagander.net/;
Work: https://www.redpill-linpro.com/ <http://www.redpill-linpro.com/;
Attachments:
docs-binary-installs-v2.patch (text/x-patch, 4.6K) download
diff --git a/doc/src/sgml/filelist.sgml b/doc/src/sgml/filelist.sgml
index 64b5da0070..463bdfd29c 100644
--- a/doc/src/sgml/filelist.sgml
+++ b/doc/src/sgml/filelist.sgml
@@ -36,6 +36,7 @@
<!ENTITY client-auth SYSTEM "client-auth.sgml">
<!ENTITY diskusage SYSTEM "diskusage.sgml">
<!ENTITY high-availability SYSTEM "high-availability.sgml">
+<!ENTITY installbin SYSTEM "install-binaries.sgml">
<!ENTITY installation SYSTEM "installation.sgml">
<!ENTITY installw SYSTEM "install-windows.sgml">
<!ENTITY maintenance SYSTEM "maintenance.sgml">
diff --git a/doc/src/sgml/install-binaries.sgml b/doc/src/sgml/install-binaries.sgml
new file mode 100644
index 0000000000..36405e74cc
--- /dev/null
+++ b/doc/src/sgml/install-binaries.sgml
@@ -0,0 +1,24 @@
+<!-- doc/src/sgml/install-binaries.sgml -->
+<chapter id="install-binaries">
+ <title>Installation from Binaries</title>
+
+ <indexterm>
+ <primary>installation</primary>
+ <secondary>binaries</secondary>
+ </indexterm>
+
+ <para>
+ <productname>PostgreSQL</productname> is available in the form of binary
+ packages for most common operating systems today. When available, this is
+ the recommended way to install PostgreSQL for users of the system. Building
+ from source (see <xref linkend="installation" />) is only recommended for
+ people developing <productname>PostgreSQL</productname> or extensions.
+ </para>
+
+ <para>
+ For an updated list of platforms providing binary packages, please visit
+ the Download section on the <productname>PostgreSQL</productname> website at
+ <ulink url="https://www.postgresql.org/download/"></ulink> and follow the
+ instructions for the specific platform.
+ </para>
+</chapter>
diff --git a/doc/src/sgml/install-windows.sgml b/doc/src/sgml/install-windows.sgml
index 11f5957aca..844ef2cbd2 100644
--- a/doc/src/sgml/install-windows.sgml
+++ b/doc/src/sgml/install-windows.sgml
@@ -11,7 +11,8 @@
<para>
It is recommended that most users download the binary distribution for
Windows, available as a graphical installer package
- from the <productname>PostgreSQL</productname> website. Building from source
+ from the <productname>PostgreSQL</productname> website at
+ <ulink url="https://www.postgresql.org/download/"></ulink>. Building from source
is only intended for people developing <productname>PostgreSQL</productname>
or extensions.
</para>
diff --git a/doc/src/sgml/installation.sgml b/doc/src/sgml/installation.sgml
index 552303e211..ce9bdb1297 100644
--- a/doc/src/sgml/installation.sgml
+++ b/doc/src/sgml/installation.sgml
@@ -21,7 +21,7 @@ documentation. See standalone-profile.xsl for details.
<productname>PostgreSQL</productname> using the source code
distribution. If you are installing a pre-packaged distribution,
such as an RPM or Debian package, ignore this chapter
- and read the packager's instructions instead.
+ and see <xref linkend="install-binaries" /> instead.
</para>
<para>
diff --git a/doc/src/sgml/postgres.sgml b/doc/src/sgml/postgres.sgml
index c41ce9499b..730d5fdc34 100644
--- a/doc/src/sgml/postgres.sgml
+++ b/doc/src/sgml/postgres.sgml
@@ -154,6 +154,7 @@ break is not needed in a wider output rendering.
</para>
</partintro>
+ &installbin;
&installation;
&installw;
&runtime;
diff --git a/doc/src/sgml/runtime.sgml b/doc/src/sgml/runtime.sgml
index f584231935..3b0710e63d 100644
--- a/doc/src/sgml/runtime.sgml
+++ b/doc/src/sgml/runtime.sgml
@@ -44,6 +44,11 @@
package installation.
</para>
+ <para>
+ PostgreSQL binary packages will normally create the user account
+ automatically.
+ </para>
+
<para>
To add a Unix user account to your system, look for a command
<command>useradd</command> or <command>adduser</command>. The user
@@ -118,6 +123,14 @@
described in the previous section.
</para>
+ <tip>
+ <para>
+ PostgreSQL binary packages normally integrates the initialization process,
+ making it automatic or look slightly different. Refer to the documentation
+ for these packages for more information.
+ </para>
+ </tip>
+
<tip>
<para>
As an alternative to the <option>-D</option> option, you can set
@@ -338,6 +351,14 @@ postgres$ <userinput>initdb -D /usr/local/pgsql/data</userinput>
<sect1 id="server-start">
<title>Starting the Database Server</title>
+ <tip>
+ <para>
+ PostgreSQL binary packages normally include platform-appropriate service
+ management (starting and stopping). Refer to the documentation for these
+ packages and the platform for more information.
+ </para>
+ </tip>
+
<para>
Before anyone can access the database, you must start the database
server. The database server program is called
* Re: Installation instructions vs binaries
2020-09-08 13:52 Re: Installation instructions vs binaries Magnus Hagander <magnus@hagander.net>
@ 2020-09-08 14:06 ` Tom Lane <tgl@sss.pgh.pa.us>
2020-09-08 14:22 ` Re: Installation instructions vs binaries Magnus Hagander <magnus@hagander.net>
0 siblings, 1 reply; 13+ messages in thread
From: Tom Lane @ 2020-09-08 14:06 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Magnus Hagander <magnus@hagander.net>; +Cc: David G. Johnston <david.g.johnston@gmail.com>; Pg Docs <pgsql-docs@lists.postgresql.org>
Magnus Hagander <magnus@hagander.net> writes:
> Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. How about like this?
Isn't this pretty duplicative of d2511d713?
regards, tom lane
^ permalink raw reply [nested|flat] 13+ messages in thread
* Re: Installation instructions vs binaries
2020-09-08 13:52 Re: Installation instructions vs binaries Magnus Hagander <magnus@hagander.net>
2020-09-08 14:06 ` Re: Installation instructions vs binaries Tom Lane <tgl@sss.pgh.pa.us>
@ 2020-09-08 14:22 ` Magnus Hagander <magnus@hagander.net>
2020-09-08 14:27 ` Re: Installation instructions vs binaries Tom Lane <tgl@sss.pgh.pa.us>
0 siblings, 1 reply; 13+ messages in thread
From: Magnus Hagander @ 2020-09-08 14:22 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Tom Lane <tgl@sss.pgh.pa.us>; +Cc: David G. Johnston <david.g.johnston@gmail.com>; Pg Docs <pgsql-docs@lists.postgresql.org>
On Tue, Sep 8, 2020 at 4:06 PM Tom Lane <tgl@sss.pgh.pa.us> wrote:
> Magnus Hagander <magnus@hagander.net> writes:
> > Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. How about like this?
>
> Isn't this pretty duplicative of d2511d713?
>
Eh yes, I clearly missed that one -- that's what I get for forgetting to
put it in the CF :)
That said, I still think it's worthwhile to have a separate chapter on
installing from binaries, ahead of the source one, rather than just a note
in the source chapter -- and with proper links to the website.
And I think Davids comment about repetitive language would apply to yours
as well, and should maybe be simplified there too?
--
Magnus Hagander
Me: https://www.hagander.net/ <http://www.hagander.net/;
Work: https://www.redpill-linpro.com/ <http://www.redpill-linpro.com/;
^ permalink raw reply [nested|flat] 13+ messages in thread
* Re: Installation instructions vs binaries
2020-09-08 13:52 Re: Installation instructions vs binaries Magnus Hagander <magnus@hagander.net>
2020-09-08 14:06 ` Re: Installation instructions vs binaries Tom Lane <tgl@sss.pgh.pa.us>
2020-09-08 14:22 ` Re: Installation instructions vs binaries Magnus Hagander <magnus@hagander.net>
@ 2020-09-08 14:27 ` Tom Lane <tgl@sss.pgh.pa.us>
2020-09-08 14:33 ` Re: Installation instructions vs binaries Magnus Hagander <magnus@hagander.net>
0 siblings, 1 reply; 13+ messages in thread
From: Tom Lane @ 2020-09-08 14:27 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Magnus Hagander <magnus@hagander.net>; +Cc: David G. Johnston <david.g.johnston@gmail.com>; Pg Docs <pgsql-docs@lists.postgresql.org>
Magnus Hagander <magnus@hagander.net> writes:
> And I think Davids comment about repetitive language would apply to yours
> as well, and should maybe be simplified there too?
Per the discussion in the other thread, we concluded that being repetitive
was the only way to be sure people would see the material at all.
If you look at
https://www.postgresql.org/docs/devel/runtime.html
a lot of people are going to follow one of the section links before
they ever see any of the chapter head material.
(This would be less of a problem if we could get DocBook to insert
the chapter TOC at the bottom of the page not the top. I dunno
how to do that, though.)
regards, tom lane
^ permalink raw reply [nested|flat] 13+ messages in thread
* Re: Installation instructions vs binaries
2020-09-08 13:52 Re: Installation instructions vs binaries Magnus Hagander <magnus@hagander.net>
2020-09-08 14:06 ` Re: Installation instructions vs binaries Tom Lane <tgl@sss.pgh.pa.us>
2020-09-08 14:22 ` Re: Installation instructions vs binaries Magnus Hagander <magnus@hagander.net>
2020-09-08 14:27 ` Re: Installation instructions vs binaries Tom Lane <tgl@sss.pgh.pa.us>
@ 2020-09-08 14:33 ` Magnus Hagander <magnus@hagander.net>
2020-09-08 14:50 ` Re: Installation instructions vs binaries Tom Lane <tgl@sss.pgh.pa.us>
0 siblings, 1 reply; 13+ messages in thread
From: Magnus Hagander @ 2020-09-08 14:33 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Tom Lane <tgl@sss.pgh.pa.us>; +Cc: David G. Johnston <david.g.johnston@gmail.com>; Pg Docs <pgsql-docs@lists.postgresql.org>
On Tue, Sep 8, 2020 at 4:27 PM Tom Lane <tgl@sss.pgh.pa.us> wrote:
> Magnus Hagander <magnus@hagander.net> writes:
> > And I think Davids comment about repetitive language would apply to yours
> > as well, and should maybe be simplified there too?
>
> Per the discussion in the other thread, we concluded that being repetitive
> was the only way to be sure people would see the material at all.
> If you look at
>
> https://www.postgresql.org/docs/devel/runtime.html
>
> a lot of people are going to follow one of the section links before
> they ever see any of the chapter head material.
>
I think we're talking about a different repetitiveness. If I apply Davids
suggestion to that patch, then instead of:
+ <para>
+ If you are using a pre-packaged version
+ of <productname>PostgreSQL</productname>, it may well have a specific
+ convention for where to place the data directory, and it may also
+ provide a script for creating the data directory. In that case you
It would say something like
Pre-packaged versions of PostgreSQL may have a specific convention....
(rest unchanged).
//Magnus
^ permalink raw reply [nested|flat] 13+ messages in thread
* Re: Installation instructions vs binaries
2020-09-08 13:52 Re: Installation instructions vs binaries Magnus Hagander <magnus@hagander.net>
2020-09-08 14:06 ` Re: Installation instructions vs binaries Tom Lane <tgl@sss.pgh.pa.us>
2020-09-08 14:22 ` Re: Installation instructions vs binaries Magnus Hagander <magnus@hagander.net>
2020-09-08 14:27 ` Re: Installation instructions vs binaries Tom Lane <tgl@sss.pgh.pa.us>
2020-09-08 14:33 ` Re: Installation instructions vs binaries Magnus Hagander <magnus@hagander.net>
@ 2020-09-08 14:50 ` Tom Lane <tgl@sss.pgh.pa.us>
2020-09-08 15:05 ` Re: Installation instructions vs binaries Magnus Hagander <magnus@hagander.net>
0 siblings, 1 reply; 13+ messages in thread
From: Tom Lane @ 2020-09-08 14:50 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Magnus Hagander <magnus@hagander.net>; +Cc: David G. Johnston <david.g.johnston@gmail.com>; Pg Docs <pgsql-docs@lists.postgresql.org>
Magnus Hagander <magnus@hagander.net> writes:
> I think we're talking about a different repetitiveness. If I apply Davids
> suggestion to that patch, then instead of:
> + <para>
> + If you are using a pre-packaged version
> + of <productname>PostgreSQL</productname>, it may well have a specific
> + convention for where to place the data directory, and it may also
> + provide a script for creating the data directory. In that case you
> It would say something like
> Pre-packaged versions of PostgreSQL may have a specific convention....
> (rest unchanged).
[ shrug... ] Well, I wrote that text, so naturally I like it the way
it is ;-). Perhaps a neutral observer would like the shorter version
better, not sure. But I think pluralizing "versions" is going to make
it harder to construct the rest of the sentence non-ambiguously.
You really only want to be talking about one data directory location
and one wrapper script.
regards, tom lane
^ permalink raw reply [nested|flat] 13+ messages in thread
* Re: Installation instructions vs binaries
2020-09-08 13:52 Re: Installation instructions vs binaries Magnus Hagander <magnus@hagander.net>
2020-09-08 14:06 ` Re: Installation instructions vs binaries Tom Lane <tgl@sss.pgh.pa.us>
2020-09-08 14:22 ` Re: Installation instructions vs binaries Magnus Hagander <magnus@hagander.net>
2020-09-08 14:27 ` Re: Installation instructions vs binaries Tom Lane <tgl@sss.pgh.pa.us>
2020-09-08 14:33 ` Re: Installation instructions vs binaries Magnus Hagander <magnus@hagander.net>
2020-09-08 14:50 ` Re: Installation instructions vs binaries Tom Lane <tgl@sss.pgh.pa.us>
@ 2020-09-08 15:05 ` Magnus Hagander <magnus@hagander.net>
2020-09-15 00:43 ` Re: Installation instructions vs binaries David G. Johnston <david.g.johnston@gmail.com>
0 siblings, 1 reply; 13+ messages in thread
From: Magnus Hagander @ 2020-09-08 15:05 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Tom Lane <tgl@sss.pgh.pa.us>; +Cc: David G. Johnston <david.g.johnston@gmail.com>; Pg Docs <pgsql-docs@lists.postgresql.org>
On Tue, Sep 8, 2020 at 4:51 PM Tom Lane <tgl@sss.pgh.pa.us> wrote:
> Magnus Hagander <magnus@hagander.net> writes:
> > I think we're talking about a different repetitiveness. If I apply Davids
> > suggestion to that patch, then instead of:
>
> > + <para>
> > + If you are using a pre-packaged version
> > + of <productname>PostgreSQL</productname>, it may well have a specific
> > + convention for where to place the data directory, and it may also
> > + provide a script for creating the data directory. In that case you
>
> > It would say something like
> > Pre-packaged versions of PostgreSQL may have a specific convention....
> > (rest unchanged).
>
> [ shrug... ] Well, I wrote that text, so naturally I like it the way
> it is ;-). Perhaps a neutral observer would like the shorter version
> better, not sure. But I think pluralizing "versions" is going to make
> it harder to construct the rest of the sentence non-ambiguously.
> You really only want to be talking about one data directory location
> and one wrapper script.
>
Yeah, I guess it can work either way. I don't feel too strongly about that
one, so I'll leave it to David to argue for that standpoint if he thinks it
applies here as well.
That leaves just the part of adding the actual new chapter of my patch.
PFA. Thoughts on that?
--
Magnus Hagander
Me: https://www.hagander.net/ <http://www.hagander.net/;
Work: https://www.redpill-linpro.com/ <http://www.redpill-linpro.com/;
Attachments:
docs-binary-installs-v3.patch (text/x-patch, 3.2K) download
diff --git a/doc/src/sgml/filelist.sgml b/doc/src/sgml/filelist.sgml
index 64b5da0070..463bdfd29c 100644
--- a/doc/src/sgml/filelist.sgml
+++ b/doc/src/sgml/filelist.sgml
@@ -36,6 +36,7 @@
<!ENTITY client-auth SYSTEM "client-auth.sgml">
<!ENTITY diskusage SYSTEM "diskusage.sgml">
<!ENTITY high-availability SYSTEM "high-availability.sgml">
+<!ENTITY installbin SYSTEM "install-binaries.sgml">
<!ENTITY installation SYSTEM "installation.sgml">
<!ENTITY installw SYSTEM "install-windows.sgml">
<!ENTITY maintenance SYSTEM "maintenance.sgml">
diff --git a/doc/src/sgml/install-binaries.sgml b/doc/src/sgml/install-binaries.sgml
new file mode 100644
index 0000000000..36405e74cc
--- /dev/null
+++ b/doc/src/sgml/install-binaries.sgml
@@ -0,0 +1,24 @@
+<!-- doc/src/sgml/install-binaries.sgml -->
+<chapter id="install-binaries">
+ <title>Installation from Binaries</title>
+
+ <indexterm>
+ <primary>installation</primary>
+ <secondary>binaries</secondary>
+ </indexterm>
+
+ <para>
+ <productname>PostgreSQL</productname> is available in the form of binary
+ packages for most common operating systems today. When available, this is
+ the recommended way to install PostgreSQL for users of the system. Building
+ from source (see <xref linkend="installation" />) is only recommended for
+ people developing <productname>PostgreSQL</productname> or extensions.
+ </para>
+
+ <para>
+ For an updated list of platforms providing binary packages, please visit
+ the Download section on the <productname>PostgreSQL</productname> website at
+ <ulink url="https://www.postgresql.org/download/"></ulink> and follow the
+ instructions for the specific platform.
+ </para>
+</chapter>
diff --git a/doc/src/sgml/install-windows.sgml b/doc/src/sgml/install-windows.sgml
index 11f5957aca..844ef2cbd2 100644
--- a/doc/src/sgml/install-windows.sgml
+++ b/doc/src/sgml/install-windows.sgml
@@ -11,7 +11,8 @@
<para>
It is recommended that most users download the binary distribution for
Windows, available as a graphical installer package
- from the <productname>PostgreSQL</productname> website. Building from source
+ from the <productname>PostgreSQL</productname> website at
+ <ulink url="https://www.postgresql.org/download/"></ulink>. Building from source
is only intended for people developing <productname>PostgreSQL</productname>
or extensions.
</para>
diff --git a/doc/src/sgml/installation.sgml b/doc/src/sgml/installation.sgml
index 552303e211..ce9bdb1297 100644
--- a/doc/src/sgml/installation.sgml
+++ b/doc/src/sgml/installation.sgml
@@ -21,7 +21,7 @@ documentation. See standalone-profile.xsl for details.
<productname>PostgreSQL</productname> using the source code
distribution. If you are installing a pre-packaged distribution,
such as an RPM or Debian package, ignore this chapter
- and read the packager's instructions instead.
+ and see <xref linkend="install-binaries" /> instead.
</para>
<para>
diff --git a/doc/src/sgml/postgres.sgml b/doc/src/sgml/postgres.sgml
index c41ce9499b..730d5fdc34 100644
--- a/doc/src/sgml/postgres.sgml
+++ b/doc/src/sgml/postgres.sgml
@@ -154,6 +154,7 @@ break is not needed in a wider output rendering.
</para>
</partintro>
+ &installbin;
&installation;
&installw;
&runtime;
* Re: Installation instructions vs binaries
2020-09-08 13:52 Re: Installation instructions vs binaries Magnus Hagander <magnus@hagander.net>
2020-09-08 14:06 ` Re: Installation instructions vs binaries Tom Lane <tgl@sss.pgh.pa.us>
2020-09-08 14:22 ` Re: Installation instructions vs binaries Magnus Hagander <magnus@hagander.net>
2020-09-08 14:27 ` Re: Installation instructions vs binaries Tom Lane <tgl@sss.pgh.pa.us>
2020-09-08 14:33 ` Re: Installation instructions vs binaries Magnus Hagander <magnus@hagander.net>
2020-09-08 14:50 ` Re: Installation instructions vs binaries Tom Lane <tgl@sss.pgh.pa.us>
2020-09-08 15:05 ` Re: Installation instructions vs binaries Magnus Hagander <magnus@hagander.net>
@ 2020-09-15 00:43 ` David G. Johnston <david.g.johnston@gmail.com>
2020-10-06 11:58 ` Re: Installation instructions vs binaries Daniel Gustafsson <daniel@yesql.se>
0 siblings, 1 reply; 13+ messages in thread
From: David G. Johnston @ 2020-09-15 00:43 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Magnus Hagander <magnus@hagander.net>; +Cc: Tom Lane <tgl@sss.pgh.pa.us>; Pg Docs <pgsql-docs@lists.postgresql.org>
On Tue, Sep 8, 2020 at 8:05 AM Magnus Hagander <magnus@hagander.net> wrote:
> On Tue, Sep 8, 2020 at 4:51 PM Tom Lane <tgl@sss.pgh.pa.us> wrote:
>
>> Magnus Hagander <magnus@hagander.net> writes:
>> > I think we're talking about a different repetitiveness. If I apply
>> Davids
>> > suggestion to that patch, then instead of:
>>
>> > + <para>
>> > + If you are using a pre-packaged version
>> > + of <productname>PostgreSQL</productname>, it may well have a
>> specific
>> > + convention for where to place the data directory, and it may also
>> > + provide a script for creating the data directory. In that case you
>>
>> > It would say something like
>> > Pre-packaged versions of PostgreSQL may have a specific convention....
>> > (rest unchanged).
>>
>> [ shrug... ] Well, I wrote that text, so naturally I like it the way
>> it is ;-). Perhaps a neutral observer would like the shorter version
>> better, not sure. But I think pluralizing "versions" is going to make
>> it harder to construct the rest of the sentence non-ambiguously.
>> You really only want to be talking about one data directory location
>> and one wrapper script.
>>
>
> Yeah, I guess it can work either way. I don't feel too strongly about that
> one, so I'll leave it to David to argue for that standpoint if he thinks it
> applies here as well.
>
The shorter version I suggest does require some implicit understanding on
the part of the reader - that while I speak of the collective each
individual member can vary. The current version just speaks relative to
some already chosen member. Given the target audience my only concern with
the more wordy version would be impaired comprehension but that doesn't
seem likely, so I would maintain status quo.
That leaves just the part of adding the actual new chapter of my patch.
> PFA. Thoughts on that?
>
I think that it is a good idea - and the patch reads well. I kinda want to
be blunt, though, and point out that if the user is using a pre-packaged
version that the packager, and not the core team, accepts responsibility
for problem reports related to installation, on their support channel.
Please don't use pg-bugs. We provide links on our website as a convenience,
not as endorsement.
David J.
^ permalink raw reply [nested|flat] 13+ messages in thread
* Re: Installation instructions vs binaries
2020-09-08 13:52 Re: Installation instructions vs binaries Magnus Hagander <magnus@hagander.net>
2020-09-08 14:06 ` Re: Installation instructions vs binaries Tom Lane <tgl@sss.pgh.pa.us>
2020-09-08 14:22 ` Re: Installation instructions vs binaries Magnus Hagander <magnus@hagander.net>
2020-09-08 14:27 ` Re: Installation instructions vs binaries Tom Lane <tgl@sss.pgh.pa.us>
2020-09-08 14:33 ` Re: Installation instructions vs binaries Magnus Hagander <magnus@hagander.net>
2020-09-08 14:50 ` Re: Installation instructions vs binaries Tom Lane <tgl@sss.pgh.pa.us>
2020-09-08 15:05 ` Re: Installation instructions vs binaries Magnus Hagander <magnus@hagander.net>
2020-09-15 00:43 ` Re: Installation instructions vs binaries David G. Johnston <david.g.johnston@gmail.com>
@ 2020-10-06 11:58 ` Daniel Gustafsson <daniel@yesql.se>
2020-10-06 12:21 ` Re: Installation instructions vs binaries Magnus Hagander <magnus@hagander.net>
0 siblings, 1 reply; 13+ messages in thread
From: Daniel Gustafsson @ 2020-10-06 11:58 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: David G. Johnston <david.g.johnston@gmail.com>; +Cc: Magnus Hagander <magnus@hagander.net>; Tom Lane <tgl@sss.pgh.pa.us>; Pg Docs <pgsql-docs@lists.postgresql.org>
> On 15 Sep 2020, at 02:43, David G. Johnston <david.g.johnston@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Tue, Sep 8, 2020 at 8:05 AM Magnus Hagander <magnus@hagander.net <mailto:magnus@hagander.net>> wrote:
> That leaves just the part of adding the actual new chapter of my patch. PFA. Thoughts on that?
+1 on this version of the patch.
It seems a bit odd to me to capitalize Download, but since it's the name of the
referenced section I guess it's ok. Personally I'd have lowercased it.
+ the Download section on the <productname>PostgreSQL</productname> website at
> I kinda want to be blunt, though, and point out that if the user is using a pre-packaged version that the packager, and not the core team, accepts responsibility for problem reports related to installation, on their support channel. Please don't use pg-bugs.
I don't think it's reasonable to expect users to be able to separate bugs
caused by the installer and supporting scripts/wrappers, and those by for
example initdb. AFAICR it's mostly the Windows installer which we get reports
for on -bugs, and the devs responsible for said installer have been quite quick
at responding so I don't really see a problem.
> We provide links on our website as a convenience, not as endorsement.
Do we? For the software catalogue we explicitly say that we don't endorse any
software linked to but we don't do that anywhere on the PostgreSQL downloads
section. Since these links are very much curated, I would think it reasonable
for users to think of them as endorsed by PGDG.
cheers ./daniel
^ permalink raw reply [nested|flat] 13+ messages in thread
* Re: Installation instructions vs binaries
2020-09-08 13:52 Re: Installation instructions vs binaries Magnus Hagander <magnus@hagander.net>
2020-09-08 14:06 ` Re: Installation instructions vs binaries Tom Lane <tgl@sss.pgh.pa.us>
2020-09-08 14:22 ` Re: Installation instructions vs binaries Magnus Hagander <magnus@hagander.net>
2020-09-08 14:27 ` Re: Installation instructions vs binaries Tom Lane <tgl@sss.pgh.pa.us>
2020-09-08 14:33 ` Re: Installation instructions vs binaries Magnus Hagander <magnus@hagander.net>
2020-09-08 14:50 ` Re: Installation instructions vs binaries Tom Lane <tgl@sss.pgh.pa.us>
2020-09-08 15:05 ` Re: Installation instructions vs binaries Magnus Hagander <magnus@hagander.net>
2020-09-15 00:43 ` Re: Installation instructions vs binaries David G. Johnston <david.g.johnston@gmail.com>
2020-10-06 11:58 ` Re: Installation instructions vs binaries Daniel Gustafsson <daniel@yesql.se>
@ 2020-10-06 12:21 ` Magnus Hagander <magnus@hagander.net>
2020-10-21 15:40 ` Re: Installation instructions vs binaries David G. Johnston <david.g.johnston@gmail.com>
0 siblings, 1 reply; 13+ messages in thread
From: Magnus Hagander @ 2020-10-06 12:21 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Daniel Gustafsson <daniel@yesql.se>; +Cc: David G. Johnston <david.g.johnston@gmail.com>; Tom Lane <tgl@sss.pgh.pa.us>; Pg Docs <pgsql-docs@lists.postgresql.org>
On Tue, Oct 6, 2020 at 1:58 PM Daniel Gustafsson <daniel@yesql.se> wrote:
> > On 15 Sep 2020, at 02:43, David G. Johnston <david.g.johnston@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> > On Tue, Sep 8, 2020 at 8:05 AM Magnus Hagander <magnus@hagander.net
> <mailto:magnus@hagander.net>> wrote:
>
> > That leaves just the part of adding the actual new chapter of my patch.
> PFA. Thoughts on that?
>
> +1 on this version of the patch.
>
> It seems a bit odd to me to capitalize Download, but since it's the name
> of the
> referenced section I guess it's ok. Personally I'd have lowercased it.
> + the Download section on the <productname>PostgreSQL</productname>
> website at
>
Yeah, that was based on the fact that it's like that on the website. But I
agree, it's a bit weird. I'll go change it.
Thanks to you both, pushed!
>
> > I kinda want to be blunt, though, and point out that if the user is
> using a pre-packaged version that the packager, and not the core team,
> accepts responsibility for problem reports related to installation, on
> their support channel. Please don't use pg-bugs.
>
> I don't think it's reasonable to expect users to be able to separate bugs
> caused by the installer and supporting scripts/wrappers, and those by for
> example initdb. AFAICR it's mostly the Windows installer which we get
> reports
> for on -bugs, and the devs responsible for said installer have been quite
> quick
> at responding so I don't really see a problem.
>
In some cases they probably can, but not in all cases. We do have people
reporting debian isssues directly to debian and redhat issues directly to
either redhat or our rpm packagers. Just not always.
We need a better workflow for reporting that, but this should really be
coded into the website (I have a draft patch somewhere that I never
finished), and not in the documentation. Because just saying "go somewhere
else" doesn't help anybody, unless we can also tell them where this
"somewhere else" is.
> We provide links on our website as a convenience, not as endorsement.
>
> Do we? For the software catalogue we explicitly say that we don't endorse
> any
> software linked to but we don't do that anywhere on the PostgreSQL
> downloads
> section. Since these links are very much curated, I would think it
> reasonable
> for users to think of them as endorsed by PGDG.
>
The things we have listed in the main download section on our website is
definitely being endorsed by the project. And as you say, the product
catalogue is different.
--
Magnus Hagander
Me: https://www.hagander.net/ <http://www.hagander.net/;
Work: https://www.redpill-linpro.com/ <http://www.redpill-linpro.com/;
^ permalink raw reply [nested|flat] 13+ messages in thread
* Re: Installation instructions vs binaries
2020-09-08 13:52 Re: Installation instructions vs binaries Magnus Hagander <magnus@hagander.net>
2020-09-08 14:06 ` Re: Installation instructions vs binaries Tom Lane <tgl@sss.pgh.pa.us>
2020-09-08 14:22 ` Re: Installation instructions vs binaries Magnus Hagander <magnus@hagander.net>
2020-09-08 14:27 ` Re: Installation instructions vs binaries Tom Lane <tgl@sss.pgh.pa.us>
2020-09-08 14:33 ` Re: Installation instructions vs binaries Magnus Hagander <magnus@hagander.net>
2020-09-08 14:50 ` Re: Installation instructions vs binaries Tom Lane <tgl@sss.pgh.pa.us>
2020-09-08 15:05 ` Re: Installation instructions vs binaries Magnus Hagander <magnus@hagander.net>
2020-09-15 00:43 ` Re: Installation instructions vs binaries David G. Johnston <david.g.johnston@gmail.com>
2020-10-06 11:58 ` Re: Installation instructions vs binaries Daniel Gustafsson <daniel@yesql.se>
2020-10-06 12:21 ` Re: Installation instructions vs binaries Magnus Hagander <magnus@hagander.net>
@ 2020-10-21 15:40 ` David G. Johnston <david.g.johnston@gmail.com>
2020-10-21 15:40 ` Re: Installation instructions vs binaries David G. Johnston <david.g.johnston@gmail.com>
2020-10-21 15:52 ` Re: Installation instructions vs binaries Magnus Hagander <magnus@hagander.net>
0 siblings, 2 replies; 13+ messages in thread
From: David G. Johnston @ 2020-10-21 15:40 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Magnus Hagander <magnus@hagander.net>; +Cc: Daniel Gustafsson <daniel@yesql.se>; Tom Lane <tgl@sss.pgh.pa.us>; Pg Docs <pgsql-docs@lists.postgresql.org>
Magnus,
[offline]
Does this resolve the 2020-11 commitfest entry?
https://commitfest.postgresql.org/30/2726/
David J.
On Tue, Oct 6, 2020 at 5:21 AM Magnus Hagander <magnus@hagander.net> wrote:
>
>
> On Tue, Oct 6, 2020 at 1:58 PM Daniel Gustafsson <daniel@yesql.se> wrote:
>
>> > On 15 Sep 2020, at 02:43, David G. Johnston <david.g.johnston@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>> > On Tue, Sep 8, 2020 at 8:05 AM Magnus Hagander <magnus@hagander.net
>> <mailto:magnus@hagander.net>> wrote:
>>
>> > That leaves just the part of adding the actual new chapter of my patch.
>> PFA. Thoughts on that?
>>
>> +1 on this version of the patch.
>>
>> It seems a bit odd to me to capitalize Download, but since it's the name
>> of the
>> referenced section I guess it's ok. Personally I'd have lowercased it.
>> + the Download section on the <productname>PostgreSQL</productname>
>> website at
>>
>
> Yeah, that was based on the fact that it's like that on the website. But I
> agree, it's a bit weird. I'll go change it.
>
> Thanks to you both, pushed!
>
^ permalink raw reply [nested|flat] 13+ messages in thread
* Re: Installation instructions vs binaries
2020-09-08 13:52 Re: Installation instructions vs binaries Magnus Hagander <magnus@hagander.net>
2020-09-08 14:06 ` Re: Installation instructions vs binaries Tom Lane <tgl@sss.pgh.pa.us>
2020-09-08 14:22 ` Re: Installation instructions vs binaries Magnus Hagander <magnus@hagander.net>
2020-09-08 14:27 ` Re: Installation instructions vs binaries Tom Lane <tgl@sss.pgh.pa.us>
2020-09-08 14:33 ` Re: Installation instructions vs binaries Magnus Hagander <magnus@hagander.net>
2020-09-08 14:50 ` Re: Installation instructions vs binaries Tom Lane <tgl@sss.pgh.pa.us>
2020-09-08 15:05 ` Re: Installation instructions vs binaries Magnus Hagander <magnus@hagander.net>
2020-09-15 00:43 ` Re: Installation instructions vs binaries David G. Johnston <david.g.johnston@gmail.com>
2020-10-06 11:58 ` Re: Installation instructions vs binaries Daniel Gustafsson <daniel@yesql.se>
2020-10-06 12:21 ` Re: Installation instructions vs binaries Magnus Hagander <magnus@hagander.net>
2020-10-21 15:40 ` Re: Installation instructions vs binaries David G. Johnston <david.g.johnston@gmail.com>
@ 2020-10-21 15:40 ` David G. Johnston <david.g.johnston@gmail.com>
1 sibling, 0 replies; 13+ messages in thread
From: David G. Johnston @ 2020-10-21 15:40 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Magnus Hagander <magnus@hagander.net>; +Cc: Daniel Gustafsson <daniel@yesql.se>; Tom Lane <tgl@sss.pgh.pa.us>; Pg Docs <pgsql-docs@lists.postgresql.org>
Sorry, not offline but not a big deal...
On Wed, Oct 21, 2020 at 8:40 AM David G. Johnston <
david.g.johnston@gmail.com> wrote:
> Magnus,
>
> [offline]
>
>
^ permalink raw reply [nested|flat] 13+ messages in thread
* Re: Installation instructions vs binaries
2020-09-08 13:52 Re: Installation instructions vs binaries Magnus Hagander <magnus@hagander.net>
2020-09-08 14:06 ` Re: Installation instructions vs binaries Tom Lane <tgl@sss.pgh.pa.us>
2020-09-08 14:22 ` Re: Installation instructions vs binaries Magnus Hagander <magnus@hagander.net>
2020-09-08 14:27 ` Re: Installation instructions vs binaries Tom Lane <tgl@sss.pgh.pa.us>
2020-09-08 14:33 ` Re: Installation instructions vs binaries Magnus Hagander <magnus@hagander.net>
2020-09-08 14:50 ` Re: Installation instructions vs binaries Tom Lane <tgl@sss.pgh.pa.us>
2020-09-08 15:05 ` Re: Installation instructions vs binaries Magnus Hagander <magnus@hagander.net>
2020-09-15 00:43 ` Re: Installation instructions vs binaries David G. Johnston <david.g.johnston@gmail.com>
2020-10-06 11:58 ` Re: Installation instructions vs binaries Daniel Gustafsson <daniel@yesql.se>
2020-10-06 12:21 ` Re: Installation instructions vs binaries Magnus Hagander <magnus@hagander.net>
2020-10-21 15:40 ` Re: Installation instructions vs binaries David G. Johnston <david.g.johnston@gmail.com>
@ 2020-10-21 15:52 ` Magnus Hagander <magnus@hagander.net>
1 sibling, 0 replies; 13+ messages in thread
From: Magnus Hagander @ 2020-10-21 15:52 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: David G. Johnston <david.g.johnston@gmail.com>; +Cc: Daniel Gustafsson <daniel@yesql.se>; Tom Lane <tgl@sss.pgh.pa.us>; Pg Docs <pgsql-docs@lists.postgresql.org>
Ah, yes it does. Thanks -- will close.
//Magnus
On Wed, Oct 21, 2020 at 5:40 PM David G. Johnston <
david.g.johnston@gmail.com> wrote:
> Magnus,
>
> [offline]
>
> Does this resolve the 2020-11 commitfest entry?
>
> https://commitfest.postgresql.org/30/2726/
>
> David J.
>
> On Tue, Oct 6, 2020 at 5:21 AM Magnus Hagander <magnus@hagander.net>
> wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Oct 6, 2020 at 1:58 PM Daniel Gustafsson <daniel@yesql.se> wrote:
>>
>>> > On 15 Sep 2020, at 02:43, David G. Johnston <
>>> david.g.johnston@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> > On Tue, Sep 8, 2020 at 8:05 AM Magnus Hagander <magnus@hagander.net
>>> <mailto:magnus@hagander.net>> wrote:
>>>
>>> > That leaves just the part of adding the actual new chapter of my
>>> patch. PFA. Thoughts on that?
>>>
>>> +1 on this version of the patch.
>>>
>>> It seems a bit odd to me to capitalize Download, but since it's the name
>>> of the
>>> referenced section I guess it's ok. Personally I'd have lowercased it.
>>> + the Download section on the <productname>PostgreSQL</productname>
>>> website at
>>>
>>
>> Yeah, that was based on the fact that it's like that on the website. But
>> I agree, it's a bit weird. I'll go change it.
>>
>> Thanks to you both, pushed!
>>
>
^ permalink raw reply [nested|flat] 13+ messages in thread
end of thread, other threads:[~2020-10-21 15:52 UTC | newest]
Thread overview: 13+ messages (download: mbox mbox.gz follow: Atom feed)
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2020-09-08 13:52 Re: Installation instructions vs binaries Magnus Hagander <magnus@hagander.net>
2020-09-08 14:06 ` Tom Lane <tgl@sss.pgh.pa.us>
2020-09-08 14:22 ` Magnus Hagander <magnus@hagander.net>
2020-09-08 14:27 ` Tom Lane <tgl@sss.pgh.pa.us>
2020-09-08 14:33 ` Magnus Hagander <magnus@hagander.net>
2020-09-08 14:50 ` Tom Lane <tgl@sss.pgh.pa.us>
2020-09-08 15:05 ` Magnus Hagander <magnus@hagander.net>
2020-09-15 00:43 ` David G. Johnston <david.g.johnston@gmail.com>
2020-10-06 11:58 ` Daniel Gustafsson <daniel@yesql.se>
2020-10-06 12:21 ` Magnus Hagander <magnus@hagander.net>
2020-10-21 15:40 ` David G. Johnston <david.g.johnston@gmail.com>
2020-10-21 15:40 ` David G. Johnston <david.g.johnston@gmail.com>
2020-10-21 15:52 ` Magnus Hagander <magnus@hagander.net>
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